Originally Posted By: lgerving This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
bedrooms and habitual rooms. This is in the form of a conforming Egress window.
NFPA 5000 Building Construction and Safety Code 2003 Section 22.2.2.1 and 22.2.2.2 states that every bedroom or living areas shall have a primary and secondary means of escape.
I read this to say all of the main floor bedrooms and living areas are required to have a conforming Egress window or a door leading onto a deck or balcony or street or ground level.
I don't have the UBC code book available so I don't know the exact requirements of this code, however, I would imagine that it will be very similar to the NFPA 5000.
Many of the older home built in the 40' 50's and 60's will not comply with the NFPA requirements.
Originally Posted By: dfrend This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
We have batted this around alot. From my safety shoes as Director of the Safe House Campaign, I would advise clients in an older home that there is no secondary means of egress, describe the problem, and recommend that they at least have the maximum protection of oworking smoke alarms.
We can point it out, but is any seller in their right mind gonna care what todays codes say about it? You can go so far as to recommend that they not use it as a bedroom, but look at the circumstances first. Or recommend they have a fire sprinkler system installed. As I recently found out, many jurisdictions even have exceptions to the code for dwellings with fire sprinkler systems. Frankly, it is even a better solution than adding egress opening
Originally Posted By: lgerving This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
, there should be a secondary means of escape out of all bedrooms. I then recommend smoke detectors be installed in or near each bedroom and all levels of the house.
The diagram that was posted on window sizes doesn't meet the min. width requirements when it is 15" wide.
A window that is 15" wide and 55" high doesn't meet the requirements even though there is 5.7 Sqft of opening. The min. "clear" opening is 20" and the min. height is 24".
I guess my original question was asked to see what reactions there were to this subject and just wondering if this is eventually going to be an enforceable standard on the main floors and second floor bedrooms.
I in no way strictly do a code inspection, however, I believe it is our responsibility to note any safety violations or problems in the home that are in our "vision". We note poor electrical panels, poor wiring conditions, poor plumbing items and poor construction practices, why then wouldn't we point out noticeable "Code" violations.
I have been a fire fighter for many years and fire safety is very high on my list. I can not ignore any type of safety item that I can see.
Lynn W. Gerving 
Originally Posted By: dfrend This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Thanks for clearing it up. I am with you. Check out www.nachifoundation.org. The Safe House Campaign strives to educate all, including inspectors, the importance of safety. It is my belief that as inspectors, we can prevent many deaths and injuries with even just a few suggestions. Remember that clients are paying for your time. They want to hear what you have to say. that means if you stress safety, they will tend to listen.
Originally Posted By: jmichalski This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
OK, what about if the basement is a newly finished basement, done without permits, and has only the stairs and three smaller windows 6 feet off the ground?
The buyer wants to have a full review by the local township since the work was done without permits. What is likely to be the result? CAn they make him install doors to the exterior (Bilco doors, etc) because it isn't code and was unpermitted?
Has anyone had any experience in this regard?
Should I state the defect, notes why it is a dangerous situation and recommend installation of fire safety and COs detectors, or call for evaluation, or call the unpermitted work and leave it at that?
Originally Posted By: jmichalski This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
OK. So it is not likely that a fix will be called for by the township? I’m sure that almost every basement in this development is finished like this, and there are no doors installed for it.
Will it reduce the home value and sqr footage that can be claimed and listed if the appraisal has to discount this space?
And to C my A - especially when the code inspector walks through and calls it - do I have to write it up and reccomend a fix, or just treat it as stated?
Originally Posted By: dvalley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe,
Determining weather this is listed as living space is not our job. That?s left to the Appraiser. When I see finished basements I always note weather the windows are to high for proper egress and weather it has two exits for egress, but I'm not there to determine if this is listed as a living area.
If the Appraiser comes in and determines that this is not a legal listed area, changes must be made to accomdate codes or this will be deleted from the listing and ...Yes...It will likely lower the property value.
Originally Posted By: janderson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I dislike the term “Egress Windows” and much prefer the new term that is used in the 2003 IRC “Emergency Escape and Rescue Openings”.
Lynn is correct, the link to the picture posted previously depicts a width dimension that is less than the minimum requirement of 20 inches.
The term "Egress Window" gives the impression that they are provided only for egress purposes, eg occupants exiting the structure--when the reality of the situation is that their size, net openable area, and location from floor/grade was designed so a firefighter in full protective ensemble (turnout gear, SCBA, and helmet) is able to fit through the opening to rescue an occupant.
When someone tells you, "I can fit through that window just fine!" Let them know that "Emergency Escape and Rescue Openings" are required so firefighters can fit through and get them out when they are unable to get out themselves.
-- Within the seeds of ignorance lie the fruits of denial
Originally Posted By: rsonneson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I never use the word CODE, use the term not to current standards but never never code. If you use the code word refering to one item then when there is a problem with another item the question you will have to answer is why did you not inspect for code on all items and not just one item. I think any reference to code is a very dangerous thing.
