Electrical Panel Inspection Dead Front Removing

[ghawkins3 (Gregory Hawkins)]

I’m in Pennsylvania

[jspencer (Jeff Spencer)]

@rbleich

The Program does not apply to homes that had issues that the inspector was not required to inspect for, according to InterNACHI’s Residential Standards of Practice.

It’s like the CYA “and all other duties as assigned” clause of a job description. Not my fault.

[ghawkins3 (Gregory Hawkins)]

True I did state this.

[rkenney (Robert (Bob) Kenney, CMI® MD Lic.# 31044)]

@ghawkins3

I’m in Pennsylvania

Then the state requires you to perform to a professional SOP like Inachi. As pointed out The Inach SOP says:

3.7. Electrical

I. The inspector shall inspect

 F. service-entrance conductors;

 G. the main service disconnect;

 H. panelboards and over-current protection devices (circuit breakers and fuses);

 I. service grounding and bonding;

@ghawkins3

I’m in Pennsylvania

Then you are required to follow a professional association SOP. Not much choice there it is either ASHI or InterNACHI (pretty soon to be only one).
Without removing the panelboard cover how can you determine the wire type or examine the neutral bonding? That’s just to start, so basically you didn’t do your job.

[sfetty (Dave Fetty, CMI)]

@ghawkins3

how many newer-built homes are actually being inspected

Defects in new builds (not just electrical panels) are very common.

To your point many perceive that a “new” house “doesn’t need an inspection” because it’s a new build. In my experience that couldn’t be farther from the truth.

Even when inspecting older homes, often defects (likely) from original construction are found.

[ddagostino (Dominic DAgostino, CMI HI3957)]

@ghawkins3

SOP practice was adhered to we don’t need to remove the dead front.

@ghawkins3

but I did not deviate from the standards of practice by not removing the dead front.

@ghawkins3

The SOP was adhered to we don’t need to remove the dead front.

@ghawkins3

For those of you who inspect newer homes, what is your approach? Do you routinely remove the dead front on electrical panels in recently constructed homes, or do you leave it in place? Have you ever encountered warranty issues or liability concerns related to removing the panel cover?

I’d appreciate hearing about your experiences and best practices.

Your original question was answered a number of times, with some quality suggestions about protocols, and you continue to argue.

[jspencer (Jeff Spencer)]

@ddagostino

Your original question was answered a number of times, with some quality suggestions about protocols, and you continue to argue.

Not everyone wants answers. They want people to agree with them.

[gmcmillan (Glenn McMillan, Certified Master Inspector/HI1206)]

I’ve inspected brand new houses and seen the county inspectors sticker inside the panel with a double tap breaker! I found bare wires on brand new houses and all sorts of issues. I highly recommend taking the cover off!!

[ccurrins (Christopher Currins, CMI®)]

This e-mail is sent by a law firm and contains information that may be privileged and confidential.

@jjonas

1. This is a Privately owned website/Forum. Your Disclaimer don’t mean squat here.

I saw that earlier and was wondering what that disclaimer is even about, or its purpose.

[mgoldenberg (Marc Goldenberg, Inspector # HI1365)]

@ddagostino

Your original question was answered a number of times, with some quality suggestions about protocols, and you continue to argue.

Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) is a mental health condition defined by frequent anger, argumentative or defiant behavior, and vindictiveness lasting at least six months. It most often starts in childhood and involves uncooperative actions toward parents, teachers, and other authority figures like iNACH Members

[jjonas (Jeffrey Jonas)]

@ccurrins

was wondering what that disclaimer is even about, or its purpose.

My WAG is a very weak attempt at preventing others from copy & pasting & sharing his posts with others!

[ruecker (Ryan Uecker)]

@ccurrins

I saw that earlier and was wondering what that disclaimer is even about, or its purpose…

My WAG, if you have “email reply notifications” turned on, you can reply to comments right inside your email. And the OP’s email sender (probably his current employer) tacks that on to all outgoing emails. Just a WAG though.

[rkenney (Robert (Bob) Kenney, CMI® MD Lic.# 31044)]

@jspencer

They want people to agree with them

Exactly! They seek / need validation!

[bhill4 (Brian Hill, CMI®)]

Standard Operating Procedure: Circuit Panel Inspection

Visual Inspection: Both the circuit breaker panel (with the cover on) and the individual breakers should be visually inspected.

Cover Removal: Removing the panel cover is not part of standard operating procedures due to electrical shock hazards.

Exceptions & Guidelines

State Regulations: The cover may be removed only if explicitly required by state regulations (such as in Texas).

Discretionary Removal: If you feel comfortable removing the cover without risking shock hazards, you may do so at your own risk. However, this is considered going above and beyond standard operating procedures.

Safety Concerns: If regulations require the cover to remain on due to a specific safety hazard, you must document both the safety concern and the reason the panel cover was not removed.

[ccurrins (Christopher Currins, CMI®)]

So is the OP a lawyer, or works for one? I know you don’t know anymore than I do.. but if he’s not.

This e-mail is sent by a law firm

[bmeyer16 (Boyd Meyer)]

I have never heard of voiding a warranty builder or manufacturer by removing a panel cover. I have inspected many newer even brand new homes and I always remove the covers unless it is unsafe or not accessible. Oddly enough I found a bonding screw installed in a distribution panel that I advised needed to be removed for safety issues, a year later I returned for a one year warranty inspection and the bonding screw was still installed.

[dhorton2 (Daniel Horton, CMI®)]

@ghawkins3

Yes and because the owner and builder of the home allowed me to inspect. Had the home been older with multiple home ownership changes and the buyers were my client I would have removed the dead front

You obviously have not inspected enough brand new homes.

I have found plenty of issues that electricians and county inspectors both missed. Such as: oversized breakers, missing bonding screws, loose conductors, and conductors that were terminated on the wrong bus bars.

The fact that its “new”, or “approved by the county inspector” means nothing.

[kstecher (Kevin Stecher)]

I’ve found massive mice nest in panels before from open knockouts. That could of been really bad.

[ghawkins3 (Gregory Hawkins)]

I appreciate your professional response. In my original post, I stated that this was a courtesy, non-invasive visual inspection performed on a newer home owned by the builder/homeowner.

One thing I am learning is local county requirements into my inspection process. In my county, electrical panel inspections by the authority having jurisdiction are generally not required unless a new panel is being installed.

The homeowner intends to have an annual inspection, which I may perform. If authorized by the owner at that time, the inspection will be more comprehensive and may include removal of the electrical panel dead front, consistent with my inspection agreement and the applicable Standards of Practice.

[cbrown73 (Chris Brown, CMI®)]

I have found double-tapped neutrals inside the panel of a new construction home. This is against code since 2002, and apparently the county code inspector missed it. They also tend to miss the drip-edge flashing not being installed at the eaves and rakes of the roof, which are also required by code. I’ve seen whole subdivisions without it. As far as panels go, I always remove the cover, unless I’m unable to. I’ve had some where the panel and screws look like they’ve been painted over 20x and couldn’t get them off. Some have been inaccessible. But very few have I not opened. Probably 5 out of thousands…