Excessive condensation on metal windows in winter

Originally Posted By: kweiss
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Yes I know it is Summer.


This is a common problem in this area, North Texas. Had a customer today that was very concerned about this problem during a Warranty inspection. Metal windows that have such excessive condensation on the inside on cold days that it pools on the sills, causes some water damage and sometimes even freezes on the window frame.

I realize this is from the interior being humid and the windows being very cold. I have heard a number of different theories on how to solve this problem. As it happens in my home, I have even tried a few of the different theoretical solutions. From opening a window slightly (seems like a bad idea in the freezing weather) to adding ventilation to the attic. None worked for me. Also heard the theory that it had to do with the size of the furnace of the home, any thoughts on that?

Has anyone found any solutions for this problem? Short of replacing the windows with higher end windows.

Any practical or even real expert solutions that could be offered and given to customers would be appreciated.

Kevin Weiss


Originally Posted By: cmccann
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No way to fix other then replacement.



NACHI MAB!

Originally Posted By: kweiss
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Just to clarify, I am not refering to condensation between the panes of glass from a braken seal. I am talking about sweating or condensation on the inside of the window that drips onto the window sill.


Originally Posted By: rcooke
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kweiss wrote:
Yes I know it is Summer.

This is a common problem in this area, North Texas. Had a customer today that was very concerned about this problem during a Warranty inspection. Metal windows that have such excessive condensation on the inside on cold days that it pools on the sills, causes some water damage and sometimes even freezes on the window frame.

I realize this is from the interior being humid and the windows being very cold. I have heard a number of different theories on how to solve this problem. As it happens in my home, I have even tried a few of the different theoretical solutions. From opening a window slightly (seems like a bad idea in the freezing weather) to adding ventilation to the attic. None worked for me. Also heard the theory that it had to do with the size of the furnace of the home, any thoughts on that?

Has anyone found any solutions for this problem? Short of replacing the windows with higher end windows.

Any practical or even real expert solutions that could be offered and given to customers would be appreciated.

Kevin Weiss

Too much moisture in the home . Poor air movement . Drapes to close to the windows and the floor so the air can not circulate enough to keep the windows just a little warmer. Do they have storms . Do they have Bath room and Kitchen fans to the outside .The bath room should have a timer not a switch as people do not run the fans long enough usually. They must be used when cooking and having a shower. Is there a humidifier on the furnace . do they cook with gas. Do they have a lot of plants or fish tanks. Is there a dirt floor in the crawl space cover it with plastic and sand oround the out side to hold the plastic tight.
Please keep me posted we in Canada have it colder longer the Texas I expect and learn how to control most of these concerns.

Roy Cooke sr . Royshomeinspection.com


Originally Posted By: kweiss
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In this particular home, and in the example of my own home, we are talking about new houses, one year and four years. Slab foundations, Gas cooktops, bath vents vented to the exterior.


I would suspect that it is maybe a worse problem here because we get cold then we warm up some then we get cold then it warms up and we play golf on New Years Day in short sleeve shirts, then it gets cold again for a couple months. So we don't just get cold and dry out the inside of the home by running the heat.


Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



kweiss wrote:
In this particular home, and in the example of my own home, we are talking about new houses, one year and four years. Slab foundations, Gas cooktops, bath vents vented to the exterior.

I would suspect that it is maybe a worse problem here because we get cold then we warm up some then we get cold then it warms up and we play golf on New Years Day in short sleeve shirts, then it gets cold again for a couple months. So we don't just get cold and dry out the inside of the home by running the heat.


Slab foundations take a couple of years to dry out Gas has lots of moisture I bet you do not run the kitchen vent enough. Green lumber also needs a some time to dry. What about the rest of my questions what are the answers . Roy C sr.


Originally Posted By: phinsperger
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fans do.


Exhaust only system ![eusa_naughty.gif](upload://nYl3dmRmAIH81yCdH9V96akYnNa.gif)

Supply only system ![eusa_naughty.gif](upload://nYl3dmRmAIH81yCdH9V96akYnNa.gif)


Balanced system ![eusa_dance.gif](upload://s9dv24YwSSRLNpgOOSxL1BkwUQ9.gif)



More info
http://www.venmar-ventilation.com/Vent/Eng/hrv2500html



--
.


Paul Hinsperger
Hinsperger Inspection Services
Chairman - NACHI Awards Committee
Place your Award Nominations
here !

Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



kweiss wrote:
Yes I know it is Summer.

This is a common problem in this area, North Texas. Had a customer today that was very concerned about this problem during a Warranty inspection. Metal windows that have such excessive condensation on the inside on cold days that it pools on the sills, causes some water damage and sometimes even freezes on the window frame.

I realize this is from the interior being humid and the windows being very cold. .

Kevin Weiss


If this has been happening for a while I would be concerned big time .
I would expect you could have Mould Growing in the walls.
Roy Cooke sr . Royshomeinspection.com


Originally Posted By: mcyr
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icon_smile.gif icon_smile.gif


Roy has pointed out some good points that need further investigation on your part.


I would like to add that there is the possibility of the window unit not having a thermal break in the frame of the unit itself.


The vapor pressures inside the home will tend to relieve itself towards the low pressure areas and excessive moisture and humidity will all contribute to the problem you have seen.


No thermal break of any sort in the design of the unit will provide the warm air and temperature to migrate through the unit and at one point the dew point will be reached and translate to water transformation.


This problem also occurs in cold wether climates and will also work in a similar way where the temperature is hot on the outside and cool on the inside.


Marcel


Originally Posted By: Mark Leonard
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Hello Kevin


We have had high humidity problems in our house. So i purchased a dehumidifer.

Has kept the condensation off the windows and it heats up the house in the winter.


Originally Posted By: mboyett
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foggedup.pdf ) ( Download File: Window_Condensation.PDF )



Mike Boyett


Capital City Inspections


Austin, Tx


www.capcityinspections.com

Originally Posted By: wdecker
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Remember. When you burn gas on a cooktop, you are converting methane (or Propane) and oxygen to water vapor and CO2. A cubic foot of gas, buurned, produces a cubic foot of water vapor.


If you cook a lot, you produce a lot of moisture.


--
Will Decker
Decker Home Services
Skokie, IL 60076
wjd@DeckerHomeServices.com

Originally Posted By: mcyr
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



icon_smile.gif icon_smile.gif


Will, I believe that is when you should be looking into the exhaust part of the system.


Also, there should be inspection on moisture problems throughout the house as a cause of the moisture intrusion cased by everyday activities.


Marcel