i thought it was better to not use the test button on the tester but to use the button on the gfci.
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Always best to follow the manufacturer’s recommended testing method.
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Use that test button at your peril. When the power goes off and can’t find the reset? You’ll stop using the button on the tester.
As to the efficacy of the test button vs the button on the device, I suspect the margin of difference is so close to zero as to not matter. There are outlets that make a zzztttt noise when you push the button on a tester then trip, but trip fine on their own button. I think they are Chinese garbage. I only found it because I bumped the test button as I was stabbing my finger at the button on the device. I then tried all in that house and they all did the same thing. Funny noise using tester then trip, trip fine on their own button.
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i asked larry, my ai assisntant, and he told me that all manufacturers of gfci receptacles recommend using the test button on the device to test them, not an external tester since it does not test all of the internal circuitry and just places a small imbalance on the outlet. that would explain the noise that @mroberts21 had when testing some cheap ones. since i hate relying on an ai which has been proven to not be 100% reliable for electrical questions, do you know of any manufacturers who do recommend using the tester and not the button on the device itself?
I can confidently state that not a single manufacturer in the world would do so. It would open them up to liability beyond their control. It would never, ever happen. Lawyers wouldn’t allow it.
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thanx for that. i just like to be sure of what i write, as i am quicly finding out that is the hardest part of this job. i am also damned glad i took the winter to learn instead of trying to jump right in and just do it. i mean i will do inspections as i have already, and be confident that i can do a great job including writing the report, but the extra time to increase my knowledge was a great idea. i think the next item on the agenda will be a faa license for those times when i can’t get onto a roof for whatever reasons. thanx for all the great advice, have a great weekend.
Walk before you fly. Walk enough and you can judge a roof from how it feels.
I’m a fan of my 360 camera for the homes I can’t walk. I have 12 and 18 foot camera(DOCA) poles. Coupled with the 360 camera, get me eyeball on roof, faster, cheaper and closer than a drone. For me, it’s fairly rare, but pre-drywall, tile, or rainy days bring out the camera pole. The Insta360 X4 is an 8k camera, so I’m thinking of upgrading my X3.
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That’s correct. GFCI’s are recommended to be tested once a month which is one reason why the NEC made it a requirement that they are all installed in locations that are readily accessible. Mounting them in a garage ceiling that is 10’ high is not code complaint for that reason. Some devices also have a self-test mode where they periodically run an internal test of the electronics.This is from Leviton:
- Test your work
(d) Press the TEST button (then RESET button) every month to assure proper operation. If the Status Indicator Light does not turn White when the RESET button is depressed and then released, or the GFCI cannot be reset, it must be replaced.SELF-TEST OPERATION
• A Self-Test GFCI receptacle has all the features of a conventional GFCI receptacle. In addition, this receptacle tests itself periodically to confirm the GFCI electronics are functional. The Status Indicator Light will be solid white when the GFCI is powered from Line side and working correctly.
• Self-Test Indications: If the Status Indicator Light is solid or flashing RED a problem may exist. Press the TEST button to trip the GFCI. If unable to Reset, replace the GFCI. NOTE: The status indicator may flash Red at power “ON” and Reset.
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i’m a former union scaffold builder and i jump out of planes for fun. the heights don’t bother me at all, but i’m getting older. i had a drone inspect my roof when i bought this house and i found an exposed nail when i went up after purchase. i am not a fan of drone roof inspections and am working on an illustration of a cat on a roof and one under a house with a tagline of “we walk the roofs, we crawl the spaces*”
*when deemed safe…
i’m good up to about a 10/12 now and refuse to walk on tiles at all. i still make a lot of money doing starlink installs too, have only had to walk away from one of those i couldn’t reach.
@mroberts21 has the right answer for why GFCI manufacturers test with their button only. That does not in any way mean that the test button on your light isn’t reliable.
If you think about it they are applying two different methods to test. The button on your tester is actually closer to a real use scenario. The test light button shorts hot to ground, just as if you bacame “HOT” and were grounded.
The test button in the GFCI outlet simulates this by suppling a rapid increase current across the hot and neutral (we know this because they work without a ground at the outlet). Not the same.
In a situation where you have multiple slaved outlets to one GFCI the test button comes in handy. Is it the best test? From a legal point of view, no. From a practical point of view it may incurr problems with locating the point of trip. Use at your own risk.
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Since we’re on this subject, I have a question for you.
No one(or very few) ever tests their GFCIs. Even fewer will open the panel and test the breaker AFCI/GFCI buttons.
Homes that are 2-3+ years old start having issues where the AFCI/GCFI breakers will make 3 distinct zZZTTT noises and then trip or don’t. Sometimes the trip will happen like a minute later. It’s a lot delayed.
Anyway, When I run into a panel that has this issue, I’ve found that if I work the breaker lever a few times, I can get them to trip properly, on first press. The ones that still make noise or won’t trip I call out. I have been letting go the ones that will trip.
I guess my question is, have I restored any life back into the breaker or once you hear the noise, it should be replaced, even if you can get it to work? I know that’s not really answerable but almost every home that is 5-15 years old with these breakers will have a non-functional one and they are not particularly inexpensive to replace a dozen of these things.
Yes, as long as you’re confident the reset is fairly close. I’ve had the “hunt for a reset” once on an inspection, I won’t do it again.
Check on your state SoP. NACHI SoP runs afoul a bit in my opinion.
Shall inspect
Shall report in need of correction.
Funny how it does not mention to report if GFCI is not present. Personally, I make mention when they are not present. And then I say the client may consider upgrading for additional safety. Problem with my technique is the upgrade recommendation could go haywire if we don’t show some restraint. Where does it end?
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Maryland SOP (ASHI) does not tell you to report if GFCI is not present. Locations are different depending on the code cycle (year) of build or remodel. Do you report on missing AFCI? Probably a more important device and yet deleted from many local codes.
in my opinion its kinda’ like suggesting sprinklers. All new builds require them, shown to save more lives than smoke detectors, yet you know before hand they won’t be installed retroactively.
All the GFCIs will be installed on the next bathroom or kitchen remodel. Need permits for those in Maryland.
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If your client is electrocuted, the jury is going to find you liable for not CLEARLY calling out a prominent safety hazard as a defect. A 1963 Chevy Impala without seatbelts is not safe to drive and neither is a 1963 home safe for occupants lacking GFCI’s.
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yet a 1963 impala will pass inspection with only lap belts, drum brakes, no power steering (if it didn’t have that option, i forgot), airbags, or anything else missing. the guy won’t even tell you it should have anything different.
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Luckily with home inspections, there is no “pass” or “fail.” We are free to note anything we want for our clients to consider.
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Lack of GFCI is NOT a “prominent safety hazard.” No SOP requires reporting a lack of GFCI. No SOP requires reporting compliance or not to ANY codes; new, old, current or otherwise. Home inspection is not new construction inspection.
There sure are a lot of people who survived this “prominent safety hazard!”
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It is not a defect. You are clearly wrong about that. Read your SOP. I have read every HI SOP in North America. They all have some things in common. One of those things is that it is not the inspector’s responsibility to assess adequacy of design. The wording may be a little different from one SOP to another, but it’s there.
I doubt that anyone who participates in this forum has investigated as many electrocutions as I have. I’m pretty good at what I do. I confess though that you have a skill I don’t have. I cannot predict what any jury is going to decide.
With your ability to predict what a jury will decide, you are in the wrong business. You should be a consultant to lawyers. I know a lot of lawyers and I’ve probably heard every one of them say, at one time or another, that they can’t predict what a jury will do. They apparently don’t know of your skills.
As for me, I’ll take my chances that at least some of the jury members are smart enough to understand a home inspection SOP if I am ever sued. The SOPs really aren’t complicated. In 32½ years in business, I’ve never been sued. For that matter, I’ve never been threatened with being sued.
What if your client is one of the one’s that did not survive?
Approximately 200 electrocution fatalities occur annually in U.S. homes, with many of these deaths linked to the absence of Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters (GFCIs).
The Electrical Safety Foundation International (ESFI) estimates that 47% of current electrocutions could be prevented with proper GFCI protection.
Since the introduction of GFCIs, there has been an 81% drop in electrocutions, and a 95% drop in electrocutions caused by consumer products.
Despite these advancements, many older homes lack GFCI protection, contributing to preventable fatalities.