GFCI question

Originally Posted By: kleonard
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Is it legal to have an ungrounded GFCI outlet?


Is it safe to have an ungrounded GFCI outlet?


If the ungrounded GFCI outlet has a sticker that states, "no ground equiptment" on it is it legal.

Thanks


--
Kevin Leonard
The Home Inspection Company
www.TheHome-Inspection.com

Originally Posted By: rwills
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Kevin,


I assume you are referring to an old 2 wire system with a GFCI replacing a two wire outlet! If so, as long as it is marked with the label as you stated it is O.K.



Bob Wills - MAB Chairman


BW Inspection Services


Warminster, Pa.


http://www.bwinspections.com

Originally Posted By: rhinck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Kevin,


Using a GFCI receptacle on an ungrounded, 2-wire system will protect the person but not the appliance.


Rick


Originally Posted By: kleonard
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Thanks.



Kevin Leonard


The Home Inspection Company


www.TheHome-Inspection.com

Originally Posted By: bbadger
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Yes it is code compliant to replace an old 2 wire receptacle with a new 3 wire GFCI.


That said it is a code violation to plug most items (items with s wire plugs) into that ungrounded outlet.


Quote:
250.114 Equipment Connected by Cord and Plug.
Under any of the conditions described in (1) through (4), exposed non?current-carrying metal parts of cord-and-plug-connected equipment likely to become energized shall be grounded.

Exception: Listed tools, listed appliances, and listed equipment covered in (2) through (4) shall not be required to be grounded where protected by a system of double insulation or its equivalent. Double insulated equipment shall be distinctively marked.

(3)In residential occupancies:

a.Refrigerators, freezers, and air conditioners

b.Clothes-washing, clothes-drying, dish-washing machines; kitchen waste disposers; information technology equipment; sump pumps and electrical aquarium equipment

c.Hand-held motor-operated tools, stationary and fixed motor-operated tools, light industrial motor-operated tools

d.Motor-operated appliances of the following types: hedge clippers, lawn mowers, snow blowers, and wet scrubbers

e.Portable handlamps


So if you see an ungrounded GFCI receptacle powering anything in the above list you should bring it up as a violation.

By the way "information technology equipment" is UL speak for computers and almost any other office equipment from phone answering machines to electric pencil sharpeners.

Bob


--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN

Originally Posted By: dedwards
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Is there an echo in here?


Originally Posted By: bbadger
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



dedwards wrote:
Is there an echo in here?


I provided more detailed information, no one had brought up the fact you can not use the ungrounded receptacle for appliances that require grounding.

Sorry to waste your time ![icon_rolleyes.gif](upload://iqxt7ABYC2TEBomNkCmZARIrQr6.gif)


--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN

Originally Posted By: jmyers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Bob,


You are not wasting anyones time. Thank you, as always, for you informative post. ![icon_cool.gif](upload://oPnLkqdJc33Dyf2uA3TQwRkfhwd.gif)


--
Joe Myers
A & N Inspections, Inc.
http://anii.biz

Originally Posted By: dedwards
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Bob,


You did not waste my time or anyone elses. I was trying to make a funney because he asked the question twice on the original post. Folks in here sure got some thin skin. I apologize if I hurt your feelings but nothing was directed at you or anyone


Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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406.3(D) Replacements. icon_rolleyes.gif


Replacement of receptacles shall comply with 406.3(D)(1), (2), and (3) as applicable.

(1) Grounding-Type Receptacles. Where a grounding means exists in the receptacle enclosure or a grounding conductor is installed in accordance with 250.130(C), grounding-type receptacles shall be used and shall be connected to the grounding conductor in accordance with 406.3(C) or 250.130(C).

(2) Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupters. Ground-fault circuit-interrupter protected receptacles shall be provided where replacements are made at receptacle outlets that are required to be so protected elsewhere in this Code.

(3) Nongrounding-Type Receptacles. Where grounding means does not exist in the receptacle enclosure, the installation shall comply with (a), (b), or (c).

(a) A nongrounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with another nongrounding-type receptacle(s).

(b) A nongrounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a ground-fault circuit interrupter-type of receptacle(s). These receptacles shall be marked ?No Equipment Ground.? An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected from the ground-fault circuit-interrupter-type receptacle to any outlet supplied from the ground-fault circuit-interrupter receptacle.

(c) A nongrounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle(s) where supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Grounding-type receptacles supplied through the ground-fault circuit interrupter shall be marked ?GFCI Protected? and ?No Equipment Ground.? An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected between the grounding-type receptacles.

(E) Cord-and-Plug-Connected Equipment. The installation of grounding-type receptacles shall not be used as a requirement that all cord-and-plug-connected equipment be of the grounded type.

FPN: See 250.114 for types of cord-and-plug-connected equipment to be grounded.


--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: kleonard
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Thanks again everybody.



Kevin Leonard


The Home Inspection Company


www.TheHome-Inspection.com