What would you say Robert .
What would you say Jeffery .
What do you mean with the terms “Double insulation” and “double insulating conductors as a no no”?
My name is not Robert or Jeffery but I see a good amount of K&T and my recommendation is always the same. **(It’s out lived is usefulness with the amount of modern day electrical apparatuses.) **Recommend replacement goes in every report
Thanks Charley Knob and tube was Great in 1948 but not great now.
It varies with what I need to report, but my standard disclaimer is:
Note in my disclaimer that I did address the issues that we are all concerned with, but I did not indicate that just because they have K&T, it must be replaced. That would not be proper, and I suspect that if I killed a deal with that kind of language, I could be held liable. This has been discussed many, many times here. I recommend doing a search, and reading through all that has been said, before you make the wrong statement.
What exactly are you referring to as “double insulation”?
Thanks
Just to through a wrench into things I have been told by AHJ that some Knob and tube is OK in a old house.:shock:
So if it is OK how can you justify tying it into new wiring?
Is this OK in the states also?
Kevin, did you read my posts? That is exactly what they purport to. K&T is NOT a material defect, in & of itself. If it is in good condition and working order, there is no reason to replace it. K&T is very common in my area, and I see it virtually every day. Some homes I see I wonder why they haven’t burned down yet, while others are pristine, and look as if they were just wired last week.
Note: Insurance is not difficult to find in my area. Perhaps it is more a lack of knowledge on the agents part where K&T is no longer prevelent. I warn my clients about this risk, and so far as I know, not one has ever has issues finding insurance.
covered with plastic and insulation not good , as it was intended in the original condition, fine I would write it up as Roy, If a electrican wants to put his John Henry on it is fine , I dont want to wake up seeing a house i did on the news you wiring most likely brittle been added to in a wrong fashion and so on . At least explain it, have evaluated
I believe in KISS and CRA Cover RoysAss .
Many get carried away with too much information .
(" Exactly. Knob and tube was installed Before 1950 . It is an obsolete Type of wiring that is not suited for today’s equipment and should be immediately upgraded ")
Jeffrey, in the homes where it is fine is the insulation ok then? that seems to be the biggest issue that I have read about, that the insulation at the age that any homes K&T is, the insulation is brittle, and that is probably the biggest hazard. Just trying to get a sense here, I’m sure that when you say it is good, then it is good. You obviously know what to look for, from all I have read, leaving K&T in place is ok as long as it isn’t clearly damaged or failing, and leaving disconnected wires in place is OK too.
I think what I am reading here though is that not many people are around working anymore that know how to properly work on K&T, so if work is needed, then upgrade is recommended. Isn’t it then prudent to always recommend upgrade? Or would an evalution like Wayne says be a better idea?
I would love to see K&T somewhere, I know some people have it disconnected, but left in place, I guess it’s a good conversation starter!
Kathleen, I assume you are referring to the insulation on the conductor, and not the building insulation. Correct, but I always call for a qualified and licensed electrican to evaluate and determine if repairs are needed, or whatever. I am not in the poistion as an HI to make that determination. (See my standard disclaimer above). If I see an issue, I call for an electrician to evaluate and** make any repairs that he deems necessary. **
**All must take note that Roy is a 40 year Electrician that is qualified to make that determination. A HI without his experience can get himself/herself into a whole lot of trouble! **
Also… never assume that K&T is abandoned unless you can visibly see that it is disconnected at both ends of the circuit and all splices. It may very well not be. I’ve seen some very creative routeing in my days. The most common places in a home I still see it is the attic, and in the basement. Most often in the attic, it has been covered with insulation, so be very carefull up there.
I see knob & tube on a regular basis. Most of the time there are issues. Improperly spliced outside of boxes with grounded wires done by a unqualified professional. Then it is insulated over by another unqualified professional.
Another common issue is having the panel(s) replaced, leaving the old wiring and replacing the fuses/breakers with 20 amps instead of 15. (overfusing) Then they state in house info. New updated electrical!!
On homes lacking insulation it is best to remove or disconnect the wiring so the attic can be properly insulated.
As some have said insurance companies have issues with the older wiring.
I report on what I see and if I can not see the wiring I can usually tell at the panel as the wiring has the loom coverings.
If left alone, typically a fused system and a poorly insulated house I would report differently but would make my clients aware they will most likely need to update the service.
I see 2 different types, one with older cloth and one with a vinyl/rubber coating over the wires.
It is what I can not see that can be an future issue/concern.
Calling out knob and tube for ”immediate replacemnent” is simple scaremongering.
Report it’s presence, explain the potential hazard and move on.
Knob and tube can be perfectly safe depending on the installation.
I have not seen any home where the Knob and Tube does not need Replacing .
Scaremongering No way Life saving you bet .
Could you not compare in away to older galvanized water piping in an old house. The pipes may look fine but as you know the inside diameter corrodes/restricting flow over time. Most would recommend replacing.
So with knob & tube, looks fine but coverings is brittle under insulation and has potential to burn down house.
First thing I am asked by my clients is does this home have Al wiring or Knob and Tube, I wonder why!
Thanks David great comparison I will use this .
Same as Plastic water feed to the Toilet and rubber hose to the close washer it is just a matter of time till they let go… Roy
I agree. Not to single out Roy but calling out immediate replacement can open a big can of worms. Years ago I was called into a similar situation where the HI called out replacement of all the K&T solely based on it’s historical problems. That led to a failed real estate deal and threat of litigation based on his opinion. Just saying that it’s a slippery slope and HI’s need to be cautious when they recommend thousands of dollars of replacement costs based on an opinion.