mold license in missouri

General Inspection Topics Legislation, Licensing, Ethics & Legal Issues
21

Ooooo… With hot wings. :slight_smile:

Okay Jim, I read your whole link. What was the purpose of it? She (whoever she is, not an expert that is for sure, I think she is a writer/librarian) talks a lot about mold and does discuss a little near the end about some of the substances produced by mold (mostly gases which occur in tiny quantities) including mycotoxins which she acknowledges the health affects are in dispute. Was the point that mold has been around, because that whole “grandparents and the good ol’ days” was a joke.

Anyway, I did appreciate your post because it illustrates my point beautifully. Right at the beginning she says:
The house I bought here in Austin seven years ago has had a mold problem… Then a few years ago I started getting allergic reactions to the mold toxins in the air, and my memory, balance and ability to concentrate were affected. I knew I had to get rid of as much mold as I could. I had the deck*??** Replaced, several rotten windowsills repaired, the chimney capped**??, the dryer vent replaced??, and the drainage around the edge of the house improved. I had two exhaust fans installed (including one at the top of the chimney), began leaving windows open a crack here and there, and (most important) began setting the air conditioning to a warmer temperature to minimize condensation on the outside??** of the house. Finally, I bought an air purifier for my bedroom. My memory, balance, concentration, and the quality of my sleep have all improved noticeably. *
So… She had mold on mostly the outside of her house and that was causing her health problem on the inside of the house? That is right on par with what most people say about mold. I sneezed therefore I have mold, my nose is running therefore I have mold, I have a headache therefore I must have mold. Doesn’t matter where, what or how much, if I find mold I’m blaming it. And they will find plenty of inspectors and other alarmists to feed their irrationality.

What I love most about it is that even if she did have a legitimate mold problem, she fixed it herself without having any testing performed. And she’s fine. Well actually the home page of the site says that she died a while back but not from mold!

Okay James, I read your link. Why don’t you start by reading the CDC link that Doug provided and then get back to us. It really is a good source of information.

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Oh and quite seriously I know mold can cause sickness and even death, both in very rare situations, but I don’t mean to offend anyone who may have genuinely suffered or been connected to that.

My disagreement and the source of my snickering is at the drama used to over emphasize the health effect in order to sell services or products.

23

SB1181 that passed in 2008 requires energy auditors/assessors/inspectors are to be registered/licensed in the State of Missouri…

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A Missouri home owner with a mold issue that utilizes the services of the certified inspector under this law will be able to deduct his fee.

25

The purpose of it was, you said mold was a just recently a problem. Instead of me posting several diifferent links, she provided some of the history of mold there.

Also she was fixing the water intrusions, not the mold outside! Where did she say she fixed the problem? She said to leave the mold up to the mold experts and I suggest you do to.

But since you keep on wanting to use a source that actually recommends bleach to be used to cleanup mold, even though there has been studies proving other wise, so let’s just do so
This is from the CDC which talks about treatment of mold infections: http://www.cdc.gov/mold/faqs.htm

What type of doctor should I see concerning mold exposure?

You should first consult a family or general health care provider who will decide whether you need referral to a specialist. Such specialists might include an allergist who treats patients with mold allergies or an infectious disease physician who treats mold infections. If an infection is in the lungs, a pulmonary physician might be recommended. Patients who have been exposed to molds in their workplace may be referred to an occupational physician. CDC is not a clinical facility. CDC does not see patients, diagnose illness, provide treatment, prescribe medication, or provide referrals to health care providers.

Another from CDC:

*In 2004 the Institute of Medicine (IOM) found there was sufficient evidence to link indoor exposure to mold with upper respiratory tract symptoms, cough, and wheeze in otherwise healthy people; with asthma symptoms in people with asthma; and with hypersensitivity pneumonitis in individuals susceptible to that immune-mediated condition. The IOM also found limited or suggestive evidence linking indoor mold exposure and respiratory illness in otherwise **healthy *children.

If you want to me to post some links from the EPA, just let me know.:wink:

26

Perfect, what you just posted backs up Cameron’s statements…I see your finally catching on, slow but surely—:wink:

27

What are you smoking, Dale?:shock:

This was Cameron’s statement:

It is impossible to eliminate mould from the living space of humans… …Whereas damp, (not mould) may have a causal association with adverse health effects, indoor mould, as commonly seen, has not been shown to have a causal association with adverse health effects.

This is what the CDC says:

*In 2004 the Institute of Medicine (IOM) found there was sufficient evidence to link indoor exposure to mold with upper respiratory tract symptoms, cough, and wheeze in otherwise healthy people; with asthma symptoms in people with asthma; and with hypersensitivity pneumonitis in individuals susceptible to that immune-mediated condition. The IOM also found limited or suggestive evidence linking indoor mold exposure and respiratory illness in otherwise **healthy *children.

28

Uhh… The lady said she took care of it. In her own words.

“My memory, balance, concentration, and the quality of my sleep have all improved noticeably.”

Okay, I’ll take back my usage of the word “fixed”. Without the help of mold experts and testing she “improved noticeably” her mold problem.

Jim, those quotes were not MY statements. The sources are right there from the EPA and the WHO.

Let’s start with this:

“limited*** or suggestive evidence linking*** indoor mold exposure and respiratory illness in otherwisehealthy children.”

And…

“sufficient evidence to link indoor exposure to mold with upper respiratory tract symptoms, cough, and wheeze in otherwise healthy people; with asthma symptoms in people with asthma;”

That means there is link, A LINK, between mold and symptoms similar to allergies… To which you should say DUH! Mold causes asthma symptoms if you have asthma… Another DUH! I would list all the other things in the world which have the same “link” but it would burn up this server! (And a side note here, at the end of your CDC quote it goes on to mention the document from the WHO which contains the same quote I posted originally: WHO Guidelines for Indoor Air Quality: Dampness and Mould)

Are we reading the same thing? The CDC is saying in otherwise healthy people, mold might be the cause of nuisance sniffles and coughing which are hardly the smoking gun for those who would tell you “your family will die if your house has mold, let’s sue someone.” Where is the alarm? Where is the epidemic? Please, go ahead and post some EPA info, I’m still looking for the reason for your commitment to this hype.

You failed to post how the CDC does not recommend testing, or professional cleanup, or how bleach IS recommended for hard surfaces, or that mold is everywhere, or that controlling the moisture is the key to controlling mold. Did you miss all that on the CDC page? That’s some pretty bad tunnel vision… it’s probably caused by mold.

Ironic isn’t it? After claiming I’m picking out quotes you post only one paragraph which you think supports your hype(it doesn’t) when the rest of the CDC page says the same things all of us have been telling you. Come on man, really?

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The reason why I just picked out quotes is to keep making blank statements about mold. CDC is wrong and is still chnging their website gradually. The EPA and OSHA (The one organization that created the myth, bleach will kill mold on porous and semiporous surfaces) has changed their positions that bleach kills mold effectively. See there are things called studies, which universities and some organizations perform that facts are discovered. Take this study

Oregon University Study Discovers Bleach is Ineffective at Killing Mold on Wood and Other Porous Surfaces
“While bleach is often recommended for remediation of surface mold on wood and other porous surfaces, our [university research study] study results illustrate that the treatment does not eliminate the surface microflora,” is the conclusion of the Oregon State University study of the effects of chlorine bleach on mold growth on Douglas fir wood [an important timber crop in the state of Oregon]. The research study was conducted by Professor Jeffrey Morrell, Dept. of Wood Science, Oregon State University, as assisted by Adam Taylor [graduate research assistant] and Camille Freitag [Senior Research Associate], as published in Forest Products Journal, 54:4, 2004. http://fcg.cof.orst.edu/structur/9557.pdf .

That was just one of many studies. I still suggest you educate yourself on a subject before debating. You will find it less embarrassing.

30

You really can’t be serious… can you?

You’re not even reading anything, you’re just posting willy nilly without actually reading anything posted by the rest of us or even yourself.

To make this point, I’m going to put the important part in bold text. Here you go: No one in this entire post has ever said anything about using bleach on wood or porous surfaces to kill mold.

If you would like to quote myself or anyone else on this post making that claim I welcome the correction.

I didn’t say it in post #28…

The CDC page Doug linked in post #7 didn’t say it…

Even the EPA quote in post #11 didn’t say it…

Enough with the bleach and start showing us where the evidence is to justify thousands and thousands of dollars worth of mold testing and cleanup in the average residential home. Tell us why we need dogs to sniff for mold. Explain the need for dry ice blasting. Quote for us the study which gives the statistics on healthy families forced out of their homes due to exposure to toxic mold. List for us which molds are toxic and will kill otherwise healthy people and tell us what level of exposure it would take. Then please share with us the proper steps to take to fully correct a mold problem. Give us evidence to understand the hype!

Or begin listing your “insurance coverup in league with the government” conspiracy theory, because at this point even THAT would make your statements understandable.

31

So are you saying the CDC is wrong about using bleach on porous surfaces? I thought you was using the CDC as a creditable source on mold?

32

HAHAHAHAH!!! LOL I… can’t… breath… Oh man, that is so ridiculous that it has actually now become funny. I am totally in awe of your lack of attention to details and then, with a straight face, you tell other people to “educate yourself… What are you smoking… Try actually reading some of the stuff you post… I suggest you read…”. That is just PRICELESS.

From the CDC webpage we’ve been discussing, please take note of the subtle emphasis I’ve included:
“Mold growth can be **removed from ](,)hard](,)surfaces **with commercial products, soap and water, or a bleach solution”

I sure hope you read that this time, that’s the largest font NACHI has. The CDC didn’t say anything about “wood” or “porous surfaces”, it only recommends bleach on hard surfaces. But just to clarify:porous = wood, drywall, paneling, etc.
hard = tile, laminate, stone, block, concrete, etc.
So again, drop this obsession with thinking we all (including the CDC) recommend bleach on moldy wood, none of us said that, including the CDC. Let’s get back to all that information you have to share with us about toxic mold. You said something about the EPA?

33

www.black-mold-guide.com/cleaning-mold-and-mildew.html

The two links above should solve the mold mystery for all :wink:

Surface – Bleach, water, detergent
Porous – Remove it.
To eliminate mold – Cut off the moisture source.

http://www.cdc.gov/mold/stachy.htm#Q14

I found mold growing in my home; how do I test the mold?

Generally, it is not necessary to identify the species of mold growing in a residence, and CDC does not recommend routine sampling for molds. Current evidence indicates that allergies are the type of diseases most often associated with molds. Since the reaction of individuals can vary greatly either because of the person’s susceptibility or type and amount of mold present, sampling and culturing are not reliable in determining your health risk. If you are susceptible to mold and mold is seen or smelled, there is a potential health risk; therefore, no matter what type of mold is present, you should arrange for its removal. Furthermore, reliable sampling for mold can be expensive, and standards for judging what is and what is not an acceptable or tolerable quantity of mold have not been established.

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A qualified environmental lab took samples of the mold in my home and gave me the results. Can CDC interpret these results?

Standards for judging what is an acceptable, tolerable or normal quantity of mold have not been established. If you do decide to pay for environmental sampling for molds, before the work starts, you should ask the consultants who will do the work to establish criteria for interpreting the test results. They should tell you in advance what they will do or what recommendations they will make based on the sampling results. The results of samples taken in your unique situation cannot be interpreted without physical inspection of the contaminated area or without considering the building’s characteristics and the factors that led to the present condition.

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Summary

In summary, Stachybotrys chartarum (Stachybotrys atra) and other molds may cause health symptoms that are nonspecific. At present there is no test that proves an association between Stachybotrys chartarum (Stachybotrys atra) and particular health symptoms. Individuals with persistent symptoms should see their physician. However, if Stachybotrys chartarum (Stachybotrys atra) or other molds are found in a building, prudent practice recommends that they be removed.

The end. :slight_smile:

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May it be so… But I have faith that jbraun will fail to read any of that and still come back with some alarmist opinion. :wink:

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Those are okay sites with mostly neutral information and only minor amounts of traversing into the area of mold alarmism. The only thing I had a big disagreement with is the recommendations (like the CDC and others) about when to bring in professionals. They probably make their recommendation based on liability, but my personal opinion is that if you can clean up 10sq.ft. you can clean 100. And if you can clean 100 you can clean more than that. Every homeowner has different skill sets and some may just want to drop the money(around here it’s big money) for a professional. If I were buying a house and found a large amount of mold I would definately request professional cleanup. Especially if it’s a bank as they are the worst homeowners out there and their disregard for moisture control makes them deserve it.

36

Depends on the type of mold. I think what most sites are trying to say is it’s ok to clean up the small stuff but when you get to dealing with large colonies it’s better to play it safe by hiring pro’s to clean it up or atleast have the mold analyzed to see what your dealing with before putting yourself in harms way.

37

That right there is the crux of the recent discussion. What or who determines what is a health risk? If a lab report comes back with a spore count which includes any stachybotrys… well, what does that mean for the client? Is it worse than high levels of, say, cladosporium? Does the interior/exterior comparison tell us anything useful? Who is the right professional to call?

If Luke is going to take on mold in his business, he has a lot of professional opinions to solidify in his own mind before he starts advising clients. Jbraun was right about one thing, people will sue the crap out of you over mold if they see an opening. And the more uninformed the client, the more likely they are to consider court. It pays to be educated and know all sides of the debate.

38

I heard a story one time that a family became very sick after they moved into their home. Doctor said it was mold. He recommend that they have their house tested for mold. They did. Cut holes in walls, carpet, thousands of dollars in expenses. Mold was found in the home, but most mold numbers were lower in the inside of the home, than the outside. Family still was sick, and moved to a motel. They started to sue everyone. Come to find out that the highest mold counts were found on the linens and pillows that the family had in storage for six months.

Make your best decision in whether or not to offer mold testing services.