The only accurate statement in that diversion was that I advertise mold testing. Still waiting for any source that corroborates your “mold facts”.
Focus James, this is about your claims regarding the benefits of air sampling, specifically, using multiple tests to zero in on a location. Which type of testing is your EPA quote referring to and how is that testing being used?.. Exactly.
Again, where are your sources for all your facts?
After hearing you state repeatedly that the IICRC520 is the holy grail of this issue, I am amazed that I find myself having to ask, have you actually ever read that publication?
This quote here pretty much sums up the validity of IAQ testing for mold spores. I know in Ontario at least, when there is a mold issue or especially a bust for a grow-op where the ESA (Electrical Safety Authority) shuts off the power, IAQ testing is required before the ESA will restore power, and as James stated before if high counts of mold spores are determined, and remediation is needed, a second test will be needed to determine remediation was performed successfully, and how would that be determined if there wasn’t an initial baseline result to compare to the final test?
The EPA quote refers to sampling generally throughout that and the previous paragraph, but even surface sampling is mentioned first in relation to finding a source of contamination according to your own word association method.
But hey, let’s assume you are correct and you have found your one and, currently, only source which corroborates your claim that air sampling can find hidden mold. Are you with me? You win. You have a source which we agree to rely on.
In the next paragraph of your trusted source it states:
Since this article is your trusted source which you insist is referring to your method for finding hidden mold, could you please post the analytical methods of the AIHA or ACGIH which detail your method, specifically “Air sampling…can help locate an area of hidden mold…The spore level will increase as air testing is performed closer to the hidden mold”?
Your analytical method will obviously be mentioned since your EPA source is referring to it, right?
No one’s debating that first point, just the limits, necessity and use of air sampling specifically.
The answer to the question is a clearance sample can’t determine if a remediation was successful, because remediation is not successful unless the moisture issue has been corrected. An air sample cannot confirm that. A clearance sample also can’t confirm the proper cleanup of fungal growth, the basis of every remediation protocol. Only a visual inspection can accomplish those two.
Then why do a clearance test if it’s not useful? Obviously there are several factors to consider when determining if remediation was successful the last of which is to perform an air sample to ensure the high spore counts have been eliminated. You’re telling everyone else to stay on track with air sampling validity yet you continuously bring up surface sampling and visual inspection. That’s a completely separate topic really, but any good mould inspector knows that these two processes are only as good as the person performing them.
As for the protocols laid out by the hygiene association I too have read them and can assure you air quality testing is there. I just really don’t have much time to convince one person otherwise. I have a business to run. Wasting peoples money testing their homes for mold spores because their children are sick and they don’t know why, but it’s not like my testing will help right? I should just tell them to tear open all the walls in their home first and go from there.
Here’s once source of proof that explains it pretty clear, yes it says sampling may not be required but in cases where mold is not visible air sampling may reveal evidence of amplification or mold reservoirs Indoors that is considered hidden behind walls and other building structures. You’ll find that at the bottom of page 5 along with reference to some other reading materials you may find interesting. So I guess I will hand my win over to James since he has been right from the start of this whole discussion.
Despite James’ methods of discussing this by putting words in people’s mouths and then berating those words, no one is saying air sampling is useless nor is anyone claiming IAQ testing is not recommended. But again, the limits (what can a single sample tells us, how much info can be drawn from the results of a sample), necessity(when is air sampling needed) or used(how is air sampling applied), those are focus of the discussion.
If the fact that an air sample can’t confirm the two most important goals in a mold remediation(cleaning up the mold and stopping the moisture) leads you to ask, “why do a clearance test?”, then perhaps the limits of the air sample are beginning to show.
You rightly presented the reason a clearance test is performed, to determine if spore levels are too high. But what determines what is considered too high? There are no standards for this. An exterior sample? Levels at the interior vary constantly, the exterior even more so. So how does one or two tests tell you the true spore count of the interior air of the home? An exterior sample at one home can be 100,000 c/m ³ and a home down the block can be 10,000 c/m ³. If both interiors test at 8000 c/m ³, which one has a genuine mold problem?
Air sampling is used at times by professionals such as industrial hygienist to determine the IAQ of homes, but it is done through the use of many, many tests, not just an exterior and interior sample. There is simply way too much faith placed in the results of individual air sample tests and little consideration of facts.
If that were the case, and there are rough guidelines for what Industrial Hygienists have come up with by testing clean buildings and buildings with level 1, 2 and 3 remediation requirements. A general rule is that your indoor spore counts shouldn’t be any higher than your outdoor air counts, they should hopefully be lower. But an 8,000 count indoors compared to the 10,000 count outdoors tells me there most likely isn’t a mold issue, a 100,000 count outdoors and 8,000 count indoors tells me that they have an amazing hvac system! Either way I can’t come to a conclusion I would have to inspect the home prior to testing to come tons justified conclusion.
That might be an overstatement, but you are certainly halfway to proving one of the five “mold facts” James has been presenting. Thank you for providing a valid source actually referring to hidden mold and air sampling.
All we need now is this source to confirm James’ analysis method that “the spore level will increase as air testing is performed closer to the hidden mold”.
I have little desire to be involved in mold testing simply because it is more a symptom rather than the actual problem.
Do not perform either but place higher value on IR scanning which looks for the cause.
Pretty much any time I enter a foreclosure their is mold from high humidity levels and if there is a roof leak I see white mold plus many tubs have mold along tub rims and soap dishes.
Do I need testing to determine the black stuff under a leaking toilet is mold ? or do I tell them to fix the damn issues.I mean really it is great to make aux money however personally feel it needs to be done in conjunction with remediation if anything.
Simply going in to do a random air check seems ridiculous to me unless suspected issues are there.
Most of the time when I recommend mold testing it is used to cover my a-s after the lick test of course…
Suspicion on my part would mainly be what is not seen under drywall and panel of a finished basement .
Just out of curiosity does the above make sense or am I totally wacked here ?
You’re statements make sense Bob. There aren’t many professional inspectors who would just sample air just for the extra $$$ at least I wouldn’t. Once again one person has completely botched the original discussion here which was basically asking those who perform mold inspections, what is included and how they go about each step. What Curtis stated above is nearly identical to how I perform my inspections. Inspect first, then sample based on inspection findings. I’m not sure how the prior pages of nonsense are helpful but oh well.
It is a shame when one person starts insulting other inspectors and spreading made up mold facts about air sampling simply because some don’t agree with him. That is what botches discussion and mis-informs inspectors.
