NACHI test

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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I took the test last night and the first thing that struck me is there are no right answers to some of the electrical questions. It does explain some of the urban legends I see here that are supposed to be code (like how far does a switch and receptacle have to be from the tub).


Has anyone actually sent these test questions to IAEI or NFPA for review?


It would certainly improve the HI reputation in the electrical community if you guys were being taught the right answers to the questions.


Since this was a timed test I didn’t take the time to note the bad <electrical> questions I found but I will if you think someone cares.


Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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I would send your comments directly to Gerry Beaumont. If there are issues, he wants to know about them.



Wisconsin Home Inspection, ABC Home Inspection LLC


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Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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OK thanks, will do


Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Greg: Please do, I am curious, please expand.


Quote:
Since this was a timed test I didn't take the time to note the bad <electrical> questions I found but I will if you think someone cares.


![icon_question.gif](upload://t2zemjDOQRADd4xSC3xOot86t0m.gif)


--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Greg wrote:
19. Exterior electrical service entrance conduits should be secured to the
side of the home: ?
every 5 to 6 feet
with electrical tape
using joist hangers
every 5 to 6 inches

NEC 2002 230.51 Mounting Supports.
(A) Service Cables. Service cables shall be supported by straps or other
approved means within 300 mm (12 in.) of every service head, gooseneck, or
connection to a raceway or enclosure and at intervals not exceeding 750 mm (30 in.).


102. Bathroom outlets and switches must be a minimum of _________ away from
bathtubs and showers. ?
3 feet
1 foot
8 feet
18 inches


NEC 2002 406.8
(C) Bathtub and Shower Space. A receptacle shall not be installed within a
bathtub or shower space.

NEC 2002 550.14 Mobile Homes
(F) Receptacle Outlets Not Permitted. Receptacle outlets shall not be
permitted in the following locations: ?
(1) Receptacle outlets shall not be installed in or within reach [750 mm (30
in.)] of a shower or bathtub space



There are a couple questions about cables being clamped or supported where
they come out of the service panel. You seem to be ignoring the exception to
312.5(C)
NEC 2002 Exception:
Cables with entirely nonmetallic sheaths shall be permitted to enter the top
of a surface-mounted enclosure through one or more nonflexible raceways not
less than 450 mm (18 in.) or more than 3.0 m (10 ft) in length, provided all the
following conditions are met: ?
(a) Each cable is fastened within 300 mm (12 in.), measured along the sheath,
of the outer end of the raceway.
(b) The raceway extends directly above the enclosure and does not penetrate a
structural ceiling.
(c) A fitting is provided on each end of the raceway to protect the cable(s)
from abrasion and the fittings remain accessible after installation. ?
(d) The raceway is sealed or plugged at the outer end using approved means so
as to prevent access to the enclosure through the raceway. ?
(e) The cable sheath is continuous through the raceway and extends into the
enclosure beyond the fitting not less than 6 mm (1/4 in.).
(f) The raceway is fastened at its outer end and at other points in
accordance with the applicable article.
(g) Where installed as conduit or tubing, the allowable cable fill does not
exceed that permitted for complete conduit or tubing systems by Table 1 of
Chapter 9 of this Code and all applicable notes thereto.


Thanks ?Greg Fretwell electrical inspector


I believe that these are from the entry level test not the new Beta test but I will check on this and make corrections as needed. The issue of a receptacle is interesting as dispite the fact that it is not a code issue several HI reference works give these a 3ft clearance to tubs and showers (which makes good sence to me even if its wrong)

Regards

Gerry


--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Greg wrote:
19. Exterior electrical service entrance conduits should be secured to the side of the home:

The required service entrance conduit support spacing really depends on the type of conduit and installation details. In general the upper code limit for typical RMC or EMT per NEC 344.30 and 358.30 would be 10' apart and within 3' of ends. However if the typical service riser conduit supports are spaced more that about 5' to 6' apart I would look closely at that, and that is also from the C&D series and NACHI TOD #0525 ... http://www.nachi.org/tips/0525.gif

On the receptacle clearance to showers and tubs, I would think the 3' clear is a good idea and may be considered good practice (also from another post discussion here, and the NACHI TOD # 0618 ... http://www.nachi.org/tips/0618.gif). However I would not use mandatory "must" language for the question/answer, and I agree there are too many possible "correct" answers listed.

I still think it would be a great idea to get some input from IAEI, if anyone has a good contact willing to help over there, that can be forwarded to Gerry Beaumont.

And good questions and comments Greg ... ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)


--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Contact Michael Johnston from IAEI, he is listed in the NACHI database.


Also, the book I sent to Gary to be reproduced includes 250 electrical questions and can serve as part of the testing if desired.


--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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JoeT wrote:
the book I sent to Gary to be reproduced includes 250 electrical questions


Hi Joe, sorry I know nothing about theses questions, if you have questions that you feel are applicable to NACHI exams I would love to be able to incorperate them.

The wider issue with some of the Entry level exam questions is that many of them are based on the CD series of slides and in some cases they reflect Canadian rather than US code standards, I think ulimately we will need to look at splitting the exam into full US and Canadian versions.

Regards

Gerry


--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Gerry:


The questions and answers will be in your next email message, I had 125 and we can clean them up a bit to be used in the HI quiz.

I also have access to the database here and will begin to develop more questions for the NACHI Electrical test and they will be correct and to the point.

Happy New Year!


--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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We will always have things that are “good practice” or a “design” issue. Unfortunately you are usually going to be stuck with what was code when the house was built. A “starter” home is pretty much anything under a quarter million around here and they will cut every corner they can to get to that price.


I am curious how well your inspectors do when they find a “design” issue on a new home inspection.


I do think it important that an HI needs to understand what the code is before they get in this fight.


Originally Posted By: Kenneth Hartman
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Something to think about though 2003 IRC 3903.10 sounds to me like there are descrbeing a shower or tub area and if this is the fact recepts and switches would be required to be 3’ from a tub or shower, because the wording that they use in 3902.10 and 3901.7 is that they are not to be installed in shower spaces. Another thing to think about is that in the 2005 NEC © Bathtub and Shower Space. Receptacles shall not be


installed within or directly over a bathtub or shower stall.Switches shall not be installed within wet locations


in tub or shower spaces unless installed as part of a


listed tub or shower assembly. Kinida sounds like they do have some kind of shower space set up but nothing to describe exactly what it is


Originally Posted By: wengelking
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Greg wrote:


quote]I do think it important that an HI needs to understand what the code is before they get in this fight.


[/quote]


Code is a fleeting thing. It is intended as MINIMUM requirements, and varies geographically and chronologically. Even the same codes are often interpreted differently from town to town. A HI cannot be expected to know what code was in effect for every building and remodel that he/she comes upon.


Yes, code is important, and should be understood by each home inspector, but the emphasis is on safety and function.


Walter


Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Greg Fretwell wrote:
We will always have things that are "good practice" or a "design" issue ... A "starter" home is pretty much anything under a quarter million around here and they will cut every corner they can to get to that price.

As long as the client is aware of the issues, and for more serious issues a licensed electrical professional is also consulted and determines it is safe and adequate, I think the home inspector's job is done.

Greg Fretwell wrote:
I do think it important that an HI needs to understand what the code is before they get in this fight.

I think it's important for an HI to have a handle on the basic model code requirements related to a home to have a baseline minimum to reference. But the intent is not to go toe-to-toe with the electrician or AHJ ... just to point out potential safety and function issues that may or may not be covered by model codes.

A perfect example is an older home with non-GFCI receptacles in bathrooms. Is that a code issue or illegal ... Nope. Is that a safety issue? ... Yup, you bet your butt it is! ... ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)


--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong