Neutrals and grounds lugged together

Thoughts on this pic?

Neutrals need a dedicated hole, one per.

Grounding conductors can typically have 2 or 3 in one hole. Check the label.

408.41 Grounded Conductor Terminations. Each grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard in an individual terminal that is not also used for another conductor.

“That’s the way I was taught”. is the most common reply, still wrong

And the response to that should be “Now that we’ve established that your training is inadequate, we understand how this occurred and can look for someone competent to come behind you and correct your work.”

WOW! Yes!
Right on !

Until recently the only way this was referenced was indirectly through 110.3 (B), Materials shall be used as listed. It was not a direct requirement. The added article is quoted above. Now it is easier to find.

Understanding that correct wiring is one conductor per lug, what if the house was built prior to the code change (1970-1990). When it was acceptable to have the same gauge wires (Neutral & ground) under the same lug.
Looking for advise, do you recommend updates or are your indicate the wiring is acceptable (no visible defects) for the time the panel was installed or home was built. Recommending they have the wires separated seems to cause back lash with my referral sources.

As Jim stated this was a requirement even before they put the direct language in the NEC. The code language was added to the 2002 NEC after being proposed by Square D.

Incorrect wiring in panel needs to repaired Immediately by an electrician .

Write this in your report and move on to doing your report .

I wouldn’t say immediately since it is not an imminent safety issue, but it should be corrected.

Tom is asking about panels from the 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s so you have to wonder if beyond the theoretical danger is there really any danger at all from an installation that might be up to 50 years old.

If I do not say immediately , there is a good chance it will never get done .
I try to CYA all the time .

Thanks for the good feedback. CYA is the a big part of it. 30-50 year old panel install without any visible updates or modifications or visible defects I like to say its more of a recommendation then Immediate and necessary repair by a qualified electrical contractor. I understand the need for the wording.
Always hoping the next time I inspect the same house for a new buyer I will see my recommendations done, but not always the case.
thanks again.

Using a statement like that can also be construed as being an alarmist. Every inspector should put things in perspective in the report. Using the word “immediately” infers a major safety issue. This is a minor issue.

Please tell us how you would write this up Thanks .

I think I made my point. Double lugging neutrals would certainly not make the summary page in my reports. You seem do to use the same phraseology “immediately” for every electrical anomaly that has been posted. I’ve noticed this for years now. Some are safety / fire hazards, but most are just minor code violations that have endured a few decades without any issues.

Double lugged neutrals are serious and I would make sure it is told .

Yep if it needs to be fixed then I want it fixed .

I like mine you did not show how you would write this up I wonder why???

I note in the body of the report, but it is not included in the summary.

“Neutral wires were doubled or bundled together under the same lug on the neutral bus bar in panel. This is a potential safety hazard in the event that one of the circuits needs to be isolated during servicing. Also, multiple wires under the same lug may not be secure, resulting in loose wires and arcing. Recommend that a qualified electrician repair per standard building practices.”

Yes yours is great too… Mine just takes a few less words .