I don’t use codes in my report!
Actually it is my client that laughs at the electrician I try to keep a straight face through my entire inspection when they are around.
How about the electrician that stuck his fingers on the case of the breaker to stop the buzzing with no gloves no glasses and no shielding.
How about the amount of times Electrician told me a FPE panel is just as safe as any other.
How about the one that didn’t have any equipment to test for no ground so he open the outlet box and pulled out the outlet to check for a ground with no gloves or eye wear.
How about the other one that told me it is OK to run an extension cord to a sump pump along the ceiling joist.
How about the one that said you can run an SER along the side of a Trailer at kid level.
The statement is exactly what is in the the Home Gauge program word for word.
The GFCI outlet at the **master bath **is a non-grounded outlet which is currently acceptable, however, it should be labeled a non-grounded GFCI and it is not as safe as a grounded GFCI (for your information).
What has been said more times than I can count is simple. The equipment grounding conductor does not make a receptacle safer be it GFCI or not.
The EGC carries fault current back to the neutral in the panel to open the overcurrent device be it a fuse or a breaker. For enough current to flow on the EGC to do this the device is not safe to use period so the EGC did not make it safe. All that conductor did was carry the fault current. Should an appliance or tool be plugged into that device during this fault the person using that tool or appliance is in dire danger. That EGC will not save them from harm. The amount of current can be figured by a rule of thumb. It takes ~ six times the rating of the breaker to open it in two seconds. Using a 15 amp breaker this would be 90 amps. Unless one thinks that holding ~ 90 amps in their hand is safe then what more is there to say.
Should there be current on the EGC then the receptacle is unsafe period be it GFCI or not.
With the GFCI no equipment grounding conductor is needed for it to function. It works solely on two conductors and the EGC is not one of them.
In the old GFCI receptacles should it stop working then it is no longer a GFCI so the EGC does not make that GFCI any safer. It is unsafe with nothing plugged into it, with or without an EGC. It is defective. Having an EGC does not make it safe.
Ok so let me get this straight.
I can’t test it with my tester and I need to rely on the internal.
I can’t tell my client not to plug in his old buffer machine, electric drill ect with a ground in the outlet because it will not be grounded.
I have to tell my client to trust the GFCI will work every time and all the time despite them failing regularly.
So if you are so upset about the statement in Home Gauge why?
Lets try a different reasoning on the outlet.
The two prong outlet on a GFCI breaker in the Master Bathroom could not be tested by my tester because it has no ground and is a non-grounded outlet which is currently acceptable, however, it should be labeled a non-grounded GFCI protected breaker and it is not as safe as a grounded GFCI (for your information). LOL
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/single-pole-15-amp-stab-lok-arc-fault-circuit-interrupter-breaker/901374
Schneider Electric - Federal Pioneer
Single Pole 15 Amp Stab-lok Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter Breaker
Model: NA15AFICP | Store SKU: 1000112733
I think I saw where you had no use for Ark Fault they are code .
I posted earlier where you should call ESA .
Frequently Asked Questions
Ontario Electrical Safety Code FAQ
http://esasafe.com/GeneralPublic/faq_001.php
Some feel smart meters make mistakes do you tell you client to test them too
http://www.optimumenergy.com/how-to-test-your-smart-meter-for-accuracy/
You seem to disagree with many on this String .
I can verify that this statement is, in fact, part of the wording used in the HG software;
I do not fault HG for having this in their product. They are in the business of selling software and there are many comments (in all reporting software) that will need to be modified in order to be accurate and factual.
However, the ridiculous notion that this information is deemed reliable by virtue of being included in the software package, is simply absurd.
To compound this absurdity by ignoring factual information, and willfully perpetuating the distribution of misinformation, goes beyond simple ignorance and reaches to the level of fraud.
As you might have figured by now I have full faith in my tester and I also test the GFCI function.
I will not modify my tester to check outlets that don’t have a ground.
I have even heard of electricians saying to plug up the ground with silicon and have found them this way.
No disrespect to you Roy!
No disrespect to you either Jeffrey!
Reasoning that you can’t test it with the hand held tester we are told to use by InterNachi is enough for me to keep the comment in my report.
This way I can verify if it was done by an electrician and not your next door neighbor.
Thanks Jeff. After all the posts here referring to the statement, I thought it best if the statement was verified as factual, by a third party, other than take the word of someone who is losing more and more respect everytime he opens his mouth.
Have you considered purchasing a “professional” tester? These “three-light” devices are not reliable for accurate evaluation of receptacle outlets.
Silcon was OK to do many years ago when they went to two wire and a ground system and stopped making the old Plugs.
It was also for a time In the Carson Dunlop reporting system .
I have also see you disagree with what the manufacture and Hydro says is the proper way of testing GFCIs .
I Have not worked as an electrician for about 20+ years and many things have changed.
I also dropped my License’s at that time to help remove the liabilities.
I do not disagree with testing them and I never said I did. I TEST BOTH FUNCTIONS.
If one fails I report it.
As for testers I have three. I have never needed to know how much voltage is in the line for a bathroom. I have only needed it to know if there is no ground as my tester has faithfully told me each time and when the test button shows no ground then I will explain to my client that I cannot test it with my tester and will note that on my report.
I also tell them to use the test button to check it regularly and show them how to test it.
This is good as in a lot of places you would not be allowed to quote NEC sections.
Client as in singular? Would this not be like your client laughing at their heart surgeon? They know about as much about one as the other.
Don’t see your point here. Are you saying that PPE would be required to turn a breaker off or on?
and here is another saying the same thing unless you can show me something wrong with the panel being inspected.
again what is your point?
I bet that an electrician gets 10 times what you get for your inspection refuting your findings. Would you please come and work in my area? I could generate a good cash flow just following you around.
are you saying that SER is not an approved wiring method?
That is not what the INachi SOP says.
and test all ground-fault circuit interrupter receptacles and circuit breakers observed and deemed to be GFCIs using a GFCI tester, where possible;
IMO the “tester” can be any one of several acceptable means. Including the manufacturers recommended method The Test Button at the receptacle.
You can use you tester to locate the device but your tester will test the amount of current it took to trip the device. The test button on the device will only allow a load of .006 amps flow and if the device fails to open it is damaged. Receptacles manufactured for the past 20 years will stop to function at all should this happen.
You can tell your client anything that pleases your heart but if you want to give them the proper information you would continue with, “but no equipment grounding is need for the GFCI to function and would serve no purpose with the protection it offers.
Unless you have something no one else on earth has I don’t see how you could tell someone anything different. If you truly do have the ability to see into the future then I would quit what I was doing right now and sit on my behind for the rest of my life.
Your tester is not an approve testing device for GFCI so that part does not count, non-grounded GFCI is acceptable is true, labeled is true but we all know the label will be gone inside a week, is not as safe as a grounded if false and has been pointed out all through this thread.
I have a tendency to disagree with many including Doctors and Electricians are right up there as the most knowledgeable so what is your point.
Are you just disgruntled because I want to point out the failings of Electricians.
Many doctors have been proven wrong also.
Don’t talk down to me Mr. Whitt.
SER is safe in many areas but not along the outside wall of a trailer. I don’t care what your NEC codes says.
I have a very good friend that lost both arms because of Electrical.
He never got a full compensation because he did not where protection.
And this…
…is any different than this…
**…HOW ??? **