Outlets not working

List the defaults or not working as, “at time of the inspection”.

OK, I read it…

I think it says you inspect the operation of GFCI’s.

But if one is tripped, you may burn down the house if you reset it.

If you test it, it may fail and burn down the house.
So, if you don’t test it, your breaking the law.
If you do test it you might burn down a house.
Why did they put a “reset” button on the darn thing anyway?

"Mr. & Ms. Buyer, the lights are not on in the bedroom and the kitchen stove is not on. If I turn it on, it may burn down the house because electricity causes fires and the SOP says I don’t have to turn on anything that is not turned on at the time of inspection.

No one said anything about GFCI’s.
That’s the point.
If you find 3 outlets at the kitchen sink, what is the first thing that comes to mind?
You call out an electrician and he says there is nothing wrong.
But because electricity is a “funny thing”, your not responsible for the fact you cost the seller a service call for something that was nothing.

So the question is, should he pay the service call?

You have the god all mighty electrician there saying there is nothing wrong, so I guess the inspector is in fact wrong.

But No!
Wait a minute. There is something here in the SOP that doesn’t say anything about testing anything.
So, that must mean that even though the electrician gods have spoken, it’s OK to call in other contractors to check what you should be checking (By Law).

How much could a electricain have charged to come out and he see nothing wrong, Most I know would not have been a charge, or very little for a 5 minute ordeal?

Your stuck on the GFCI. Was not even in the 1st post. It’s 3 outlet’s. Not working.

Your response was he was not doing his job-in affect.

Inspector’s are doing to much. Liability insurance is not cheap. The SOP’s need to be followed. This the year 2011.

And just another reason we have more and more license requirements and constant code updates. Too many DIY’s (do-it-yourself)

Take care David have a good weekend.

Since it’s a kitchen, my guess is that a GFCI was tripped somewhere. Either the HO reset it before sparky got there, or sparky simply hit the reset button and said there’s nothing wrong.

Most SOP’s do require inspectors to check GCFI devices.

Robert,

I agree with you 100 percent. My State SOP requires GFCI testing.

I based my comments on the 1st post. 3 outlets not working. No statement about GFCI.
I assumed no GFCI in my comments.

I recently looked at a older home. The kitchen was remodeled with no permit. There were no GFCI’s in kitchen.

Also in my comments. The inspector followed the SOP. Clear and simple-found 3 outlets not working, said to have electrician evaluate. That is all that is required.

Your a PE. You obviously know the ramifications of resetting any electrical GFCI’s, fuses or circuit breakers without some evaluation. This is all good discussion. Had 3 outlets been found, not working, in an industrial or commercial setting, there would be immediate lock-out, tag-out.

If I found 3 outlets not working. My mind would immediately start thinking-overloaded circuit, damaged wire in wall, bad receptacle, moisture, on and on. I know more, as do most Home Inspector’s, but as a Home Inspector, I am not required to do anything further and will not. Defect found, report! Even as a Building Code Inspector, Electrical Code Inspector, Fire Inspector you write it up as a deficiency. They do not trouble shoot it. Everyone has a job. Stay within the parameter’s of your job description.

Nachi Education Committee. There needs to be greater emphasis on Electrical Safety for Home Inspectors. Start with proper PPE when inspecting Panels–Arc Fault hazards. There are arc fault incidences daily in our country. Burns to face, damage to eyes, hearing, clothes catching fire. Greater awareness on how little amps is necessary to kill someone.

The 2nd leading cause of Fatality’s, behind falls, in construction, is electrical. So we can assume, in general, the hazard to Home Inspector would be falls and electrical in nature.

I maintain that if you are not a licensed electrician or a PE, do not mess with electricity beyond the SOP. Staying with the SOP is good prudent practice. It eliminates confusion to the general public on what actually a Home Inspector is required and not required to do. Staying with the SOP also eliminates potential lawsuits.

Unsafe Acts cause death, injury and property loss.

Ahhhh, but did he?

If the outlets didn’t work because of a tripped GFCI somewhere, that device should have been located and inspected per the SOP. If it was tripped, that should have been reported.

At that point you can just reset the tripped GFCI device (beyond the standards, but I do), or advise your client of the tripped GFCI device and let them or the HO push the reset button. If the client wants to call a sparky and pay for a service call to reset a tripped GFCI thats their call … :wink:

Can you enlighten us on this equipment required?

I have yet to see a building of 4 units or less with high voltage supplied to the building.

The first thing that comes to my mind is the GFCI.

Why do you assume that?

There was no statement about anything.
How can you assume anything?

If you were going to assume anything, it should be that this inspector probably doesn’t know anything about electrical stuff.

Was there a GFCI in the house?
Was the breaker tripped?
Was the wire hooked to the breaker for the kitchen?
What is the condition of the wire to the kitchen breaker?
Was the panel labeled as required so you know which one is the kitchen breaker?
Are there any other outlets, like bathrooms, garage, exterior that also don’t have power?
We do look inside panels don’t we?

No one is telling anyone to diagnose the problem (if it is in fact a problem). But you can do your job and collect information.

If it is a tripped breaker, do not re-set.

If it is a burnt wire, maybe a good idea to turn off the breaker and notify someone?
Or should we follow SOP and let someone die in a fire waiting for the electrician.

Oh, and by the way; it seems that you know something about electrical stuff. If you think you can hide being the Home Inspector Title and not have to do things that you have knowledge and qualification to do (like turn off a breaker that is an emanate danger to the occupants) you will have a hard time passing this off on a jury.

David,

This discussion is futile at this point!.

Required equipment? Start with OSHA.Gov Subpart I 1910.132. And keep reading. You will never read everything on that site. If you are fool enough to not find an answer go to the CDC, NIOSH, NFPA, Google “Capelli-Schellpfeffer Inc”, the sources of in formation and training available in today’s world is pretty endless.

“I have yet to see a building of 4 units or less with high voltage supplied to the building”.

That statement tells me you have no clue about electrical safety.
It’s Amps that kill. As little as 2-3 amps with 120 volts.

I posted my comments and explained my answer already. Go back and read it. Not going in circles.

No point in further discussion.

Marc … I think David is saying that OSHA does not require electrical PPE for an independent home inspector doing a typical residential panel inspection. Its a very good idea (especially safety glasses) … but not OSHA required.

Now if your doing commercial inspections at higher voltages, or you have employees, thats a different story.

I think these two are pretty good … and FREE for members. You can thank Nick, not the EC

How about you reading NFPA 70B and quit making more crap up…?

Look in the mirror if tyou want to see a “FOOL”.

Your not the first (fool) to think that OSHA applies to us.

You don’t even know what “High Voltage Service” is; and I “assumed” you knew something!

You post what High Voltage “is” and I may discuss this further. Otherwise your just another “wanna-be” idiot that thinks he knows ssomething and needs to impose your made-up beliefs it on all of us out here.

Mark, what I am saying has nothing to do with what is required. I want to know what your sorry *** thinks is required.

There are standards. And contrary to your inability to read, I do not suppress safety of Home Inspectors.

I just don’t need the likes of you “dictating” what we “Must do”.

Until you deal with “High Voltage” ( which is something you are going to define for us, Right?"), shock zones and arc flash zones are not required in a home inspection.

Now if you guys want to go past the J. McKenna IR course for home inspections, you must know about this stuff. There is no reason for it in what you are working on, and John has no obligation to train you in this area.

It is recommending an electrician to evaluate makes him liable for the electrician’s bill, in my opinion. If he just wrote three outlets not working in kitchen, he would not be in such hot water.