Report on a $32,000 ridge beam nightmare

Originally Posted By: R. Michael Gray, P.E.
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I inspected a house Friday and saw something I had never seen before. The house was 2 story and had a den in the rear with a fireplace at the rear of the den with the fireplace at the rear wall. The ceiling went all the way to the top of second story; also, there were no ceiling joists since it was all open. Sheetrock covered rafters ran from the top of the side walls of the den to the ridge above. With this configuration, the ridge is structurally a ridge beam and not a ridge board.


The owner was the original owner. Here is the history of the problem. There was never any sign of a structural problem until a third roof covering was applied. The original roof was wood shingles. The second roof was a composition shingle overlay. When it came time for a 3rd roof, the wood shingles and the composition shingles were removed, new plywood decking was installed and new composition shingles were installed. Shortly after that, the ridge began to visibly sag and there was obvious distortion in the side walls and in the rear wall that housed the fireplace.

Eventually the situation got so bad that they called in an engineer. He did not, apparently, put any report on paper but contacted a repair contractor and verbally told him what to do. Essentially they took the distressed roof down, realigned the side walls and constructed a new roof using a microlam as a ridge beam. At the inside end of the ridge beam (the front of the den) the ridge beam was supported in a wall in a conventional manner. At the fireplace end, they supported the ridge beam with a "large piece of angle iron".

The original ridge beam was a 2-ply 2x12 and was clearly inadequate. To make matters worse, the support at the fireplace end of the original beam was nothing beyond the friction between the beam and the brick. I am sure the carpenters intended to go back and resupport it but something happened. The additional load from the new roof plus the vibration from the work was just too much.

The cost to repair was $32,000 and this was 10-years ago.

Now they want to sell the house and they have nothing on paper. lI was there to write an opinion as to whether the repair was adequate. Since there was no design to review and almost everything was not visible , I explained that I could not verify the adequacy of the repair design. I could however inspect it from a performance perspective and provide an opinion addressed to that issue.

There was no sign of any distress or sagging that would indicate a problem.

But this whole episode got me to thinking. I have no problem with the ridge beam support in the load-bearing wall at the front of the beam. I made some quick calculations and the ridge beam itself is marginal but okay. That leaves the support at the fireplace end. Apparently they attached the angle iron to the fireplace chimney brick with some large bolts. If this ever gets in trouble, it most likely be at this connection. But I do not know how else this could have been repaired without at least doubling the cost.

I am curious about a couple of issues. I have seen this type of arrangement before in completed house and, frankly, have never questioned the connection or load path at the fireplace end. If I were designing it, I would have the ridge beam rest on a steel beam supported by two steel pipe columns that would take the load to the foundation. The angle iron connection and the use of the brick to transfer the loads to the foundation are not, in my mind the best solution although, in this case, they are working.

Question #1: Does anyone know how this is normally done in new construction?

Question #2: Has anyone seen this repaired differently than was the case in this house?

R. Michael Gray, PE
Professional Structural Engineer
webmaster: www.houston-slab-foundations.info


Originally Posted By: jquinn
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Michael,


I'm with you on this one. Since when is a chimney a structural support. I like your idea with the two columns.

No written report huh? I think we both know why. Was there a permit pulled when this was altered ten years ago?

James Quinn
Kitchener, Ontario, Canada


Originally Posted By: R. Michael Gray, P.E.
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



This was in Harris County outside Houston, Texas and since it is not inside the city limits, no permit is required.


R. Michael Gray, PE
Professional Structural Engineer
webmaster: www.houston-slab-foundations.info


Originally Posted By: jquinn
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Michael,


so let me get this straight. Billybob and Huck can do whatever they want as long as the do it outside of Houston? We have to take out permits just to think about it !!

But then agin, igloos are a little more complicated. ![icon_cool.gif](upload://oPnLkqdJc33Dyf2uA3TQwRkfhwd.gif) ![icon_cool.gif](upload://oPnLkqdJc33Dyf2uA3TQwRkfhwd.gif)

Quinn the eskimo


Originally Posted By: jklimack
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R. Michael,


I would shy away from writing an opinion on this assembly with only a limited visual inspection. This design was obviously a homeowner/contractor design. The bearing of the new carry beam should terminate on the outside wall and transfer to the foundation. I understand the fireplace prevented this and then presented a unrealistic repair cost.


I would rate the shear on the bolts and the application into the masonry of course the more expensive repair would be the redesign of the fireplace. John/All-County NJ


Originally Posted By: mtimpani
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I would refer to a structural engineer.



Thank you, MarkTimpani


www.pridepropertyinspections.com

Originally Posted By: jklimack
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R. Michael is a engineer.


Originally Posted By: rcloyd
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Michael:


I would not recommend bearing upon the masonry fireplace unless this point load was part of the fireplace design. If you are unable to verify the structural aspects of the fireplace (including footing size) I suggest writing your report in a way that expresses your concerns (doubts) and leave it at that. No since in you taking responsibility for a possibly flawed design.

Let the client know that without removing building materials you are unable to verify the structural integrity of the design.


Regards,


--
Russell G. Cloyd
Intra-Spec Home Inspections
& Code Consulting, LLC
859-586-4591
www.intra-spechomeinspections.com

Originally Posted By: lewens
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Micheal


In new construction around here if the load for the ridge beam was not transferred to the foundation with a suitable column, and I don’t think block or brick would be found suitable, the local bldg inspector would not pass it. Even in repair a permit would have had to have been pulled. I’ve seen some of the building done in Harris County and I can understand your frustration.


Larry


Originally Posted By: jonofrey
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R. Michael Gray, P.E. wrote:

There was no sign of any distress or sagging that would indicate a problem.


There's the key. If you don't see any visible signs that would indicate a problem, mostly likely neither would a buyers inspector.

With full disclosure, the sellers disclosure form would indicate that there were previous roof repairs. The buyers inspector would "do his thing" and find the same thing you did, no sign of any distress or sagging that would indicate a problem.

Putting myself in the sellers shoes, that's how I would handle it. Based on the limited information that you have provided, my guess is that the seller has gone way over the top in attempting to provide full disclosure by hiring a P.E. to try to go back in time to document history (no offense). Simply disclosing previous roof repairs and providing addition detail by telling the truth about the previous engineered repair (if need be) more than fulfills the sellers moral obligation to the potential buyer. IMHO.

Obviously you handled the situation correctly.

I have seen similar ridge beam configurations in new construction where the fireplace end was supported inside the fireplace with a steel skeleton and the brick/rock built around it.


--
Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.