Originally Posted By: Steven Brewster This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hey guys,
Would you consider this set up an S-type trap?? All of the sink drains are installed as shown and are not vented at the fixture. There is only one 3 in. vent for the entire home! Most sinks gurgle when emptied.
Originally Posted By: Jay Moge This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
i don’t think that is an “s” trap. it looks like a home store bought trap for a floor mounted drain. that about the only way to incorparate a trap. an “s” trap would be if there was a bend going down, up, down and then horisontal. i’d be curios to know if there is another trap under the floor that the home owner was unaware of when he installed this one. there usualy is one between the floor joists that you can’t see.
double traps will also cause the gurgle noise. a 3'' vent for 1 kit. sink, 1 bathroom should be enough, unless for some odd reason all drains are used to full copasity at the same time (not likely)
Originally Posted By: Steven Brewster This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I realize that this is not a true S-type trap but I would think it would work on the same principle. If I’m correct ?, S-type traps can siphone on its on or when another fixture (unvented or not) drains and can break the water seal causing sewer gases to enter the residence. Just didn’t know if this set up would act in the same manner.
There were no traps for the fixtures in the crawlspace, except for the tubes. This home has 2 full baths and washing machine located > 40' from a vent.
Originally Posted By: rmoore This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
Without a trap arm, an AAV will do nothing to correct this set up.
Jeff, I have to disagree. Island sinks are now often vented this way for the very same reason that there is no wall drain. I have a couple I installed in my own kitchen that look very similar to the diagram below. Somewhere I have better diagrams of allowed set-ups but I can't seem to find them right now.
Anyway, I see no reason Steven's sink could not be adapted the same way to prevent siphoning.
-- Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
(from your image)
as pictured here.
The length of that horizontal run can be no less than 2X the diameter of the trap weir for a "crown vent" (standard drain/vent system as in your image), and no less than 8 inches for a "vertical leg," which would be necessary based on the original picture.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: rwand1 This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I have seen these Air Admittance Valves placed on the horizontal section of the waste line. Most always installed in modified plumbing systems in older housing.
Most times I will flush the toilet or run shower/bathtub to try and hear if there is any gurgling fom the sink or bathtub. It is not uncommon to hear this in older homes with S-traps.
The auto-vent seems to be a good work-around, but I can't say as to how you would test it and ensure it works? Let alone the manner it which it is installed in some cases. Just because you don't hear any gurgle is not a guarantee of no problem.
-- Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (OAHI)
http://www.raymondwand.ca
Originally Posted By: rmoore This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hi Jeff…
I don't mean to be a pain, but as we would be effectively changing the original set-up to my diagram wouldn't the 2x apply? (BTW...where is that 8" stated...I can't find it). Granted it's tighter than under a kitchen sink, but either 3" or 8" I still think it could be incorporated with an AAV and some creative (but allowable) plumbing. The AAV can also be Teed off the trap arm.
I suspect many plumbers would now fix Steven's problem with a properly installed AAV (assuming local codes allow it) rather than tear the walls down trying to install a normal wall outlet and through roof vent.
Just took a photo of one of mine...my trap arms are definately long enough. 
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
rmoore wrote:
I don't mean to be a pain. . .
I don't consider intelligent conversation to be "painful." 
rmoore wrote:
but as we would be effectively changing the original set-up to my diagram wouldn't the 2x apply?
The problem in the original post (as I see it) is the location of the actual drain which appears to be in a direct line vertically beneath the sink drain (not enough off-set for a proper trap and vent), hence the orientation of the "S" trap.
rmoore wrote:
(BTW...where is that 8" stated...I can't find it).
IRC P3105.3(3) Vertical leg for waste fixture drains.
rmoore wrote:
Just took a photo of one of mine...my trap arms are definitely long enough.
I agree. Yours is a standard "crown vent" where the 2X rule applies.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: Steven Brewster This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hey Guys,
Thanks for the input. I had reported it as S-traps and recommended repair by a lic. plumber. This home is 5 years old, in the country, with many deficiencies. I can't believe what some people get away with when a city inspection is not required/available. Who suffers, the un-informed owner!!!!
