Twisting ceiling joists

I used to install HVAC in residential and thats the kind of work I am used to seeing when most everthing lines up.

Here’s the house from the outside.

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Holy Cow… I must have missed the age of the home. I was thinking all along that this was an addition not new construction. A hip roof with this type of construction would have a problem carrying the snow loads around here.

One day of snow here, maybe 6 inches at the most, is the norm. It hangs around about a day then it’s 70 degrees later the same week.

You just had to rub it in. It’s really nice here now. The sun’s out and it’s a wonderful 55 degrees! :smiley:

Hip roofs are actually one of the strongest roof system next to geometric roofs which you rarely see in residential construction. I also see no guardrails or handrails on the front.

Anyway, the ceiling joist simply need to be tied together…again a simple fix.
Hip roofs are fun to build, especially baster hips (which is what I think you have there),…my personal home is a Neo-Victorian with 3 turrets with your typical bastard hips. Such roofs separate the wannabe carpenters from the real ones. (laugh)

Oh yeah Joe, don’t forget to tell how just the mention of snow make people run to the store for milk, bread and batteries. Coming from Ohio, it drives me crazy.

regards

Jeff

Joe, rafters should almost always oppose and the ceiling joists should act as rafter ties, tying the bases of opposing rafters together. That home was framed by someone who didn’t know what they were doing. It’s a serious framing mistake and you should recommend evaluation by a structural engineer.

Bad roof.

I agree with Kenton. Not only should the ceiling joists be tied to the rafters, but there should also be blocking between each set. That is how to keep joists from twisting. Don’t know about anywhere else, but the blocking is required here.

First its not a serious framing mistake…its not good practice (because of the twisting) I agree to but to say its a serious framing mistake is exaggerating. I can show you roofs designed by architects and engineers where there are no ceiling joist or collar ties.

In many cases with modern home designs, you have ceiling joist running parallel with the rafters…is that to say its a design flaw…of course not.

One has to be careful of reporting items are deficient when they clearly are not.

How many of you would write this up…or how about this oneand this.

You need to understand that not every roof system is going to have ceiling joist and collar ties…they don’t have to. Neither does there have to be blocking…as I said before, simply take a 1x4 and ties ceiling joist together will be just as quick and effective…plus cheaper.

regards

Jeff

The first two are not finished, so I would write them up. The last one the Balusters are too far apart…

Balusters are too far apart :wink:

Non conforming hand rail too;-)

I’d not specify repair required as there may be many more issues than immediately visible. Just my opinion, but if it were my inspection, I would recommend to have a structural engineer evaluate structure of the entire home (God knows there is more than enough issue for concern)

Collar ties have nothing to do with this. They’re located in the upper third of the roof and are designed to prevent uplift, but they’re an architect’s call and not always required. Every wood frame roof (except maybe Bucky domes) that doesn’t have a structural ridge has rafter ties or trusses with bottom chords, both designed to keep the walls from spreading.

There should be 5-16d nails through each joist into the rafter where they lap (and every other joist should lap if joists are 16" OC) and two toenails through the joist into the top plate. Shear strength is about 900lbs per nail for 16d sinkers face nailed, so that’s 4500lbs of strength that’s missing at each joist/rafter connection (lack of connection in this case).

Those joists are the rafter ties and are supposed to keep the walls from spreading. You delete the nails through each lap and count on two toenails through each joist into the top plate- and those joists split half the time when those toenails are placed, especially if the wood is dry and especially if you’re a bad carpenter (such as the one who framed this roof) and don’t know where to place them- then you don’t have much keeping the walls from spreading.
IMHI not having much keeping the walls from spreading is a serious omission and should be looked at by an SE.

The twisting is ugly but probably not going to fail. Twisting happens when you leave your framing lumber laying around in the sun, or when yo use Hem Fir instead of Douglas Fir (because it’s cheaper). Joists are typically blocked over walls and that prevents joist rotation. No blocks at all is bad framing.
I wouldn’t state it as the inspector because that’s not our business, but as a contractor I’d recommend those joists be fastened to the exterior walls with adequate metal connectors and blocked over interior walls.