Thanks for the great info so far.
About half, maybe more, of what Charley does, is what licensed HVAC techs do here. Since I’m not a licensed HVAC tech, I don’t do that. In fact, severe civil and criminal penalties are possible for practicing as an HVAC tech without a license. Thus, I have to just be a measly little home inspector/property consultant.
Gas-using appliances should be inspected/serviced/checked on an annual basis, so I advise my Clients that notwithstanding whether or not the heating and cooling system provide heated air or cooled air, respectively, “If it cannot be proven that the heating and cooling system has been inspected within the last twelve months, recommend complete system evaluation by licensed heating and cooling professional before close of escrow.” It’s terminology that has not only served me well, but also served my Clients well since many of them have gotten new furnaces, escrow credits, or reduced real estate purchase prices.
It’s all in managing the Clients’ expectations. I regularly tell my Clients that the State of California considers licensed professionals smarter/more intelligent/experts in their professions and that there are certain things in those licensed professions that I, as an unlicensed professional, cannot do, if not because of licensing procedures and legal requirements in this state, then because my various insurance policies (E&O/GL/Life/AD&D) won’t pay if I’m doing things that are excluded from their policies. Practicing without a license in an industry that requires licensing is excluded from all my policies.
For example, “checking the amp draw on each individual element” is way beyond the SOP and is something that I wouldn’t get into. If one is checking the amp draw on the heater, I would hope that one is checking the amp draw for the oven, the cook top, the water heater, etc., etc., etc. Why one and not the other? But then checking the amp draw is something that licensed electricians do, so then I would be intruding into their jurisdiction/area of expertise again, so I don’t go there.
As I’ve advised for almost five years now, sit down with one’s insurance advisors and attorneys and devise an inspection and report writing protocol, and then stick with it persistently and consistently until advised otherwise due to case law, legislative law, or insurance claims.
Third installment
Lets talk A/C units not a lot of time consuming efforts here. I perform my first check while making my outside tour as that is where my inspections starts outside.
Check the condenser for lint build up, general appearance record name plate data, Check the size of the breaker at the unit only as I will also be checking the same circuit when I open the dead front on the main panel. I find lots of 60 amp breakers at the unit but will have the proper 30 or 40 amp breaker in the main panel and this is just fine. Check the low voltage wires can not be inside the seal tight with the 220-volt power supply from the disconnect box to the unit unless allowed by AHJ.
Check the size of the freon liquid and suction line at the unit to determine if it is the same size or larger than the MFG’S stub out on the unit, can not be reduced. Pull the access panel and view the condition of wiring to and from the contactor also at the capacitor as they are known to burn they are a simple spade clip and become loose over time. If visible I view the points on the contactor for burn marks. While this panel is removed I determine if there are any holes left open in the frame of the unit that allows mice into the unit they just love to eat wires. If a suction line dryer is installed that tells me that someone has changed out the compressor and I make a mental note of this when determining age. I do not use freon gages unless my gut tells me to which is very infrequent I operate from the Stat like most other inspectors. I have a card that allows me to use gages if you have no card don’t even think about it the fine is more than you will make in 6 months.
I operate heat pumps like any other unit with the exception of the reversing valve I want it to operate in both modes no matter what the outside ambient is and I do this if the outdoor temp is very hot I will turn the unit off at the disconnect, active the stat for the opposite mode return to the unit and turn the disconnect back on and run the unit just long enough to feel the suction line and determine that it is getting warm and then turn the unit off at the disconnect and go back and set the stat to cool and reactivating the disconnect.
[RIGHT]I am not going to discuss splits or Delta T here that is your option to take or not to take. When operating the A/C unit from the stat I physically visit the unit again ensuring the fan has the proper rotation have observed many that were not. [/RIGHT]
Eyes, Ears and touch come into play at this point. If the compressor motor has a broken internal mounting spring you can normally hear it will sound like an iron wheel Tater wagon. If the bearings in the condenser fan motor are bad you can hear this also. The suction line should be cool to cold and the liquid line should be warm to very hot depending on outside ambient.
Some A-coil pans are visible by removing the front cover some are not. I don’t
View every A-coil because of access. I make this determination based on the age
of the unit and the amount of lint in the blower wheel.
Condensate drains very important ensure you know where they are being
discharged to especially on attic installs as this can create you some heart-burn if
clients ceiling gets wet. Attic installs P-Traps, safety pan and secondary drain
or moisture safety shut down switch.
Air flow from the registers floor or ceiling helps me determine if the A-coil needs
to be observed for lint. I try hard to stay away from efficiency due to size of the
unit or to many drops on one trunk line. Common sense should tell you if have a
2-ton unit on a 2500 SQ ft. home it is not going to work.
Guys this is most of what I do sure I missed something
Good post.
No doubt, a home inspection by Joe Tedesco would have two of the the three hour inspection devoted to the electrical system (along with 25 pages of his thirty page report).
The SOP provides a sufficient guideline, IMO.
Very simple deduction I can tell you if the cook top is working with out checking amps put your hand on the burner-) Can not tell if all elements are working on an electric furnace without amp meter. Not checking amps checking to see if they are working
JB you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Would you care to see an HVAC quote from one of my reports. Probably less than you write trying to cover your A**
First, you describe the system. If it works, report it. If it does not work, write it up. That’s about it, according to our standard of practice.
I think RR gives an apt description of the dangers of going beyond the SOP - especially when one is not a licensed HVAC tech.
[/INDENT]
Hmmmmmmm. I’ll let you have it, Charley.
But what about the electric water heater. Do you do an amp draw on the two elements there, too?
Just way too much for my comfort level and that of my insurance advisors and attorneys. Again, though, if one is comfortable doing it and has the blessings of one’s business advisors, great!
I had a listing agent who uses me regularly call me to do an inspection for the buyers of her listing. Come to find out, the buyers had originally chosen a part-time inspector (whom I know) who does a couple of inspections a month, at $79 during the off season and $99 during tourist season, to pay for his SDG&E bill. He’s retired from the military. The report he provided was 17 pages of handwritten script, of which 15 pages was about plumbing. Wanna guess that he was a plumber in the military? His Clients got their money back and hired me to do a $399 inspection.
Ah, but, Charley, you can do the same with the furnace or water heater. Does the furnace provide hot air? Yes or no. Does the water heater provide hot water? Yes or no.
?
Not on a regular basis only if the water temp is to low; again FEEL If it burns me no need for amp meter.-) I leave nothing to chance it either works or it does not and If I have to use a amp meter to determine if it is working as intended so be it. I won’t have to consult with my lawyer or my insurance adviser as there is nothing in my reports that states I used an amp meter. I just report the unit was performing as intended or it was not.
Now I’m really confused. You can report whether it did or did not work, was or was not performing as intended without resorting to an amp meter to determine the amp draw.
I think many people use a delta split. I use my Clients. If they complain about it being too hot, I think it is working as intended. Then if it hasn’t been inspected/serviced within the last 12 months, it needs to have that done since I don’t dismantle the furnace to get to all areas of the heat exchanger.
So if you get into court and the attorney asks you, “Have you ever used am amp meter to determine the amp draw?” what will you say?
Its not whether it is providing hot air or hot water it is determined by; is it performing as it was designed to perform by the MFG. Yes a furnace can provide hot air with 3 of the 5 elements working but is it working as intended. NO
Can a hot water heater provide some hot water with just one element yes but it will run out real quick and again it is not performing as intended.
No need for confusion you can not state that the furnace was absolutely performing as intended without the use of an amp meter. I don’t operate on I THINK IT IS WORKING. Tell that to the Judge Sir I think the furnace was working. I just remove normal access panels on a furnace nothing more.
I have never been to court but if was asked that question the answer would be Yes to determine if the unit was performing as intended as no other means are available SIR
Hey quit ripping my shorts question# 1 was what do you other guys do. That is what I do take it or leave it—)))
Re: What is your HVAC procedure? See That is what the question was
That’s why I leave the furnace running for at least 10 minutes, or until everyone complains about how hot it is, and I probably use all 30/40/50 gallons of hot water during the course of my inspections.
That’s why I run the furnace until my Clients (and others) complain about how hot it is. Tell that to the judge: “Well, judge, my Clients sure were complaining about how hot it was and asking when I was going to turn the furnace off, so it must have been working at the time of the inspection.”
Understand. But since post #1 in this thread is by a person who only has 11 posts as of this moment, some of us don’t want him to think going so far above and beyond the SOP is okay. I’d rather him hear lots of different ways, with some back and forth thrown in, and then go to his attorneys and insurance advisors with what he wants to do to see if the agree.
Not ripping you. Just trying to find out what you do, why you do it, and whether or not you are persistent and consistent.
You don’t have to provide in your report a definitive explanation of what you did and why you did it. However, when one gets into court, it’s that persistency and consistency in working that can save’s one’s assets. At this point, I’m not seeing the persistency and consistency in what you do, and that troubles me.
See post #38.
I see you advertise yourself as a Master HVAC Mechanic (retired), so you could be justified in going above and beyond. However, many home inspectors who come from other professions many times have difficulty in leaving that other profession behind and being a home inspector. I see it all the time out here.
This is your quote not mine in Red