That’s is the beauty of NACHI.
Different backgrounds contributing to the common cause of educating.
Yep…for those justing reading these END examples…GO back and read this topic from the start to really GAIN something…not just the last few posts.
And…ENJOY and feel FREE to jump in and add to it…
Hey…Micheal inspired me to do some more checking on the STRAY voltage issue. Everyone knows ( I think ) that while the Ground Rod does not assist in anyway…the removal of stray voltage it is important to know HOW stray voltage can really get on the house system itself…
Ironcially since the Grounded Conductor going down your service drop or latteral is serving as the path back to the transformer…we all know that in the transformer you have a connection between the primary grounded conductor and the secondary grounded conductor…what this DOES is provide for stray voltage on the system and this can leak into the earth and be picked up by the pool systems bonding and so on…interesting concepts here and WELL above the normal head of most electricians actually…
I then went searching for some articles and found this one…VERY interesting article and I will post a link to it…
I ironically enough the 5MA of a GFCI threshold may not kill you right away…it really depends on HOW good o contact you have and if the MA rises…at 10MA you are probably going to be TOAST regardless…
Anyway this is just a little light reading on a kinda…sorta variation of what Michael was stating…just not equipment related really…
Enjoy the read : http://www.mikeholt.com/documents/safety/word/8-16-99.doc
FYI- Micheal…THANK YOU…I just wanted you to know I passed that article along to Mr. Holt and here is his comments
“This is so wrong. I’ll write a newsletter with my comments and send it out to 40,000 electrical professionals.”
See…I am not full of CRAP…tehhehehehe…
Disclaimer - Sorry for the TEEHHEHEHE…please dont FLAME me as it is simply my way of expression and enjoyment in a field I simply LOVE.
FYI- Yes, I do idolized Mr. Holt…I inspire everyday to gain as much knowledge as this man has.
I did. I like the table on the last page. It will give many a better idea of the hazards involved.
BTW- 1 mA can be felt when it is applied to one’s ear lobe which is very sensitive in most cases .(really depends on the resistance of the skin)
EWWWW…I ain’t tryin that one fella…
What did Mike Holt have issue with out of curiosity?
I will let you know…I am doing it also myself…but I am sure his are the same as mine. I will post his newsletter when it comes out as I am sure he will GO way deeper than I would.
I suspect it’s mostly semantics and definition of terms type stuff.
Keep in mind that article was written by a power supply mfg.(Comdor) and not a standards association.
The relevant information on current limits it straight out of the accepted standards.
Yeah…Yeah…and their HORSE and CARRIAGE will turn back into a pumkin at midnight.
No actually it is important because you would NOT believe in the past 3 days how many articles I have found that state the function of the GES…and I simply send them on to mike for newsletters so I thank you for it…
Another point I wanted to make is about the potential thing…I think Richard was eluding to it…but I get asked this also also…how come the Cable Guy and the Direct TV guy and phone people connect to our GEC or GES…this IS to create a potential between the systems in case of a lightning strike as well onto their systems.
Without going into detail…all the systems MUST be on the same potential and so on…but it is really a lightning thing…not an effective Ground Rod thing…Thanks for bringing up potentials Richard…Excellent !
BTW…if only (1) person learned something from the entire thread it was a BIG HOOYA…can I get an AMEN !
Also I think MARC busted a myth also back on a electrical panel/circuit scheme I posted a few days ago as well. marc you will be happy to know that will was sent in also for a newsletter…
Be sure anyone commenting goes back and reads all the posts leading to the end to get a better understanding of the thread…
Ok the ground rod is for grounding, I get it.
How about some more questions.
It,s purpose is to send stray voltage into the earth where it will not pose a danger to people. With no groung rod someone could become the path resulting in electrocution. ken
Incorrect…please read the entire thread Mr. Lott
[quote=pabernathy]
OK…when this POLL expires I want someone from the YES crowd ( other than a Current or Previous Electrician ) to post a answer.
Paul. Is “Current Electrician” a subliminal message?:shock:
lol…man I did not see that…well not a intended one anyway…
edited for spelling
lolol…and that guys is dead today Marc…because he got excited and tried it on some 480V, 1200A panel somewhere…
Excuse me, Paul, but if the ground rod is for lightning protection, shouldn’t all lightning rods be attached thereto, and if they were, wouldn’t they then carry whatever potential was on the neutral, which is bonded thereto as well, and wouldn’t that lead to roofers shocking themselves off of rooves or roofs whatever the case may be? Well no, because they would be insulated by the house, (whether or not it itself was insulated)!
So what is the deal with lightning rods and why doesn’t every home have one? Also, when lightning does strike, why doesn’t the ground rod save the panel from getting scorched?
JK
BZZZ…the lightning ROD system should be attached to the GEC and the ROD for the LIGHTNING system needs to also be more than 6’ from the GEC for the dwelling. If the Lightning Rod system is installed correctly it will have its own GROUND rods…they then get BONDED to the GEC at the ground rod location for the dwelling and if no ground rod…to the available GES of the dwelling.
Nope…you are getting very confused here…You have to understand the flow of electrons and their movement.
Lightning does not care if it strikes WOOD, METAL or HUMAN’s…it is bound by the height and proximity as many people know it strikes TREE’s also…
The lightning strike is VERY high frequency and runs down the conductor on the outer most shell…it has increased surface area and thus because lighnting is trying to get to the earth it SHUNTS to ground with the proper connection…the very opposite of what the Electrons in your electrical system are trying to do…they DO NOT want to go to earth…they want to go to the source of their creation.
You have to look at locations…location…location as to the air terminal issue, first it does not mean lightning will strike a air terminal but they are more common in areas where the lightning days are in larger numbers like in Flordia and the lower states…the more you go north the less lightning days you have and less risk but the risk is not removed anywhere.
There is no LAW requiring these installations for one thing, the NEC simply refers to the connection of them to the GES which I explained above…but does not mandate them or instruct their requirements…it is still optional but more and more people are putting them in.
You ask why does it ground rod save the panel…it is not intended to save anything connected to it except the dwelling…to save the panel or items in the dwelling you would need a TVSS system or surge protectors as lightning is such a high frequency it can feed back through the system but the real intent of the system to to SHUNT the high frequency lightning to the earth…the earth has a negtive or positive charge in relation to the atmospheres negative and positive charge and the difference of which causes the lightning…as the earth moves through the atmosphere it creates this build up and this causes lightning.
I have seen a few systems where the Air Terminals and Grounding System actually DID save the panel and saved the house itself because chances are the lightning could have hit the house even without the air terminals.
Again…just because the GEC is connected to the same buss bar in the panel as the Grounded ( neutral ) conductor is does not mean electricity is running down to the ground rod and then in turn up to the air terminals…again electricity is trying to make it’s path to the source.
Notice- Lets NOT assume now that the GEC never has any current on it…simply not true but thats gets REAL tricky and really above where an HI board should go. You really should treat the GEC system as if it were a HOT wire to simply be safe but thats about all I should go on that topic…