Thanks for taking the high road. I’m sure the NACHI members value your opinions too.
Question Tab You are also not a member of NACHI , you pay nothing for the information given here.
How can I be sure you are a home Inspector.
Do you feel you are correct in criticizing a person who just might know a lot more about the rules of the electric trade then you do.
Mark and speedy have given much help and do it freely .
If you are a home Inspector I wonder why you come here for information and do not belong to NACHI.
…Cookie
You are the one that turned it personal Marc!
Sorry you feel that way. I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings. I vow that from now on, I will be more conscious of the delicacy of the feelings of other people who don’t know me and who I’ll never meet. Hopefully you’ll find it in your heart to forgive me.
Neither Marc or Speedy are members. I am a home inspector. I have been doing it successfully for the last 11 years. I was about to become a member right before the 10,000 member maximum thing was floating around. I have just not gotten around to it. I know that non inspectors have lots of knowledge to give, they just don’t have to deal with the same type of issues that a home inspector does. I know I as a home inspector I don’t have to deal with the issues that Speedy or Marc deal with in their chosen profession. I wish they would respect that.
I did say to feel free to call it out if you want to. Not sure what else you wanted. Having a different opinion than you, and indeed a different vantage point, is much different than disrespecting your opinion. I think your opinion on this topic has no merit, but that’s not being disrespectful.
Thanks very much I too am a home Inspector .
The ten thousand thing should not effect you sending in your membership.
I am also a retired electrician and also agree completely with what they have said.
I did not think they where being mean after all they posted what they felt was correct and where challenged for giving how they would do it.
If you have been following my posts today you will have seen where I feel the non NACHI members who have been visiting this BB must have trouble with mathematics.
http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=25169
… Cookie
I privately wonder if Tab was just playing devil’s advocate for no special reason? After all, he was or is an IAEI member, so he surely ought to know where me and Speedy are coming from.
I do not play games. I was just trying to help the original poster. Marc already pointed out that it was not a “code” requirement. I was merely trying to point out how someting like this might come back to bite you, and really the best way to supply power to multiple 240 volt outlets is to provide separate circuits to each outlet, even if the code does not require. If I see multiple 240 volt outlets in a garage for example, I try to determine how the circuits were wired, even if that might be considered to beyond the scope of a standard hoem inspection. The reason I do this is because I want to make sure the buyer is aware of all conditions that could be present on the property they are about to purchase.
Why do you do this for the 240 circuits, and not the 120 circuits? After all, the potential exists for the new occupant to overload any of the receptacle circuits in the home. Why do you feel that there is an expectation that each of the 240 volt receptacles would be served by dedicated circuits, and not the 120 volt circuits? I say very simply that any expectation that each 240 volt receptacle is served by a dedicated circuit is unreasonable. The new occupant can easily overload any of the receptacle circuits in the home, not just the 240 volt ones, and that’s neither a defect, hazard, or an oversight on the inspector’s part. The installation simply doesn’t conform to the way they want to use it, and they need to call a sparky or plug some stuff in someplace else. This is akin to the master bedroom clothes closet being too small to accommodate their clothing, even though at first look they thought it would be. This isn’t the inspector’s fault either. They need to call a carpenter or give some clothes to The Salvation Army.
I’m done…
I have a good example of this in my garage. There is one 240v 30a circuit with 3 30a receptacles. I have 2 things I might plug in, a welder and a 5HP pressure washer. If I ever wanted to weld and pressure wash at the same time I would probably trip a breaker. It hasn’t been a problem so far.
The other place I have 2 240v appliances on one circuit is the pool pump and the gas pool heater igniter. That is the way the instructions say to do it.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what the kids call a pwning.
Sorry to see you leave we all can learn from discussion.
That is the NACHI way.
If it comes to where I give up I do not leave I just say I guess we will have to agree to disagree .
Much is learned with thoughts and Ideas talked about .
…Cookie …
Tab Wilcox.,
I am going to step in this mess for a min and I will back few guys here in this forum ,… Marc Shunk ., Speedy Pete., Greg Fetwell., Cooke., few others along they will say the same answer with the 240 volt circuit they can be classifed as genral circuit useage just like the 120 v circuit and it been done in both resdetnail and commercal/industrail side.
it is very simple as long more than two peoples saying the same answer then you know it will be right on the track.
sure sometime we can get into debate but main point here is using the common sense as well.
not too long ago I work on comuster house have to add 3- 240 v 20 amp repectale and it wired all on the same circuit because the load on that circuit is not very high and not used very often. yeah it will take less room in breaker box as well ]
Merci, Marc
P.S. if you want to cuss to me in french you are more than welcome to do it to me all i am saying here., We try to help the HI’s to improve their service and they will learn more along the way.
Guys,
This has gone way too far.
Yes in a perfect world they would be on separate circuits, but as was stated most people are not going to operate 2 welders at the same time and you would be a fool to try to operate your welder while you are pressure washing.
There is no safety hazard and you would get only nuisance trips.
My last house (way before I started inspecting), built in 1945, had every overhead light in the home and 1 receptacle in each room on one 15 amp circuit. It was an inconvenience, but not a safety issue. A lot of older homes are wired this way to preserve space in the panel. The HI that I hired did not tell me about this issue, but it wasn’t his fault. He did not trip the breaker to see what it would turn off and as in most older homes, it wasn’t labled.
How many of you trip breakers to make sure that there is not more loaded onto them than is supposed to be. BY THE WAY… for those who may not know, there should be no more than 5 individual loads on any 15 amp circuit and 7 on a 20 amp. Using the logic that some are giving here, we should trip each breaker in the home (or use a circuit sniffer) to identify each circuits loads. Any circuit with more that 5 or 7 loads respectively should be also written up for repair. I am more than willing to do this but, as this is way above and beyond the very limited standards that we practice, the increased time and liability incurred on my part will demand a fair compensation.
With the information given, the breaker can be changed out to 30 amp providing that the receptacles and items utilizing this circuit are rated for that amperage. This will help reduce nuisance trips, but no hazard exists.
[quote=Jon Randolph]
Guys,
This has gone way too far.
Yes in a perfect world they would be on separate circuits, ( never going to happen )but as was stated most people are not going to operate 2 welders at the same time and you would be a fool to try to operate your welder while you are pressure washing.
…Exactly…
There is no safety hazard and you would get only nuisance trips.
My last house (way before I started inspecting), built in 1945, had every overhead light in the home and 1 receptacle in each room on one 15 amp circuit. It was an inconvenience, but not a safety issue. A lot of older homes are wired this way to preserve space in the panel. The HI that I hired did not tell me about this issue, but it wasn’t his fault.
He did not trip the breaker to see what it would turn off and as in most older homes, it wasn’t labled.
…Not part of a visual inspection.
How many of you trip breakers to make sure that there is not more loaded onto them than is supposed to be. BY THE WAY…
…No one I hope…
. for those who may not know, there should be no more than 5 individual loads on any 15 amp circuit and 7 on a 20 amp. Using the logic that some are giving here, we should trip each breaker in the home (or use a circuit sniffer) to identify each circuits loads. Any circuit with more that 5 or 7 loads respectively should be also written up for repair. I am more than willing to do this but, as this is way above and beyond the very limited standards that we practice, the increased time and liability incurred on my part will demand a fair compensation.
With the information given, the breaker can be changed out to 30 amp providing that the receptacles and items utilizing this circuit are rated for that amperage. This will help reduce nuisance trips, quote]
Great idea just put in a thirty amp breaker ,Do not be concerned that the number 14 wire is only rated for 15 amps.
( but no hazard exists. ) WRONG this is serious to put things like this on an open BB where some one might think you are correct and wonder why they had a fire.
…Cookie
Marc, What is a pwning? I just had to retire for the evening. Early morning for me.
HUH?? Where did find this absurd (and INCORRECT) rule?
Again, HUH??? Receptacles and items? How about the branch circuits? THAT is what is important. It is HIGHLY unlikely that a circuit with a 20A receptacle, on a 20A breaker, will have been wired with wire capable of handling 30 amps.
Jon, I really think you should refrain from giving electrical advice until you have your facts straight.
High pressure water welding …what a great idea…there must be a need for that somewhere…:shock: