advice on water pipes

Originally Posted By: ecox1
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need advice


Originally Posted By: jhagarty
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What is your opinion of the installation?



Joseph Hagarty


HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com

Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865

HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.

Originally Posted By: ecox1
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it’s ok to me just want a second opinon


Originally Posted By: jhagarty
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If it looks OK to you, why did you post the Picture and Question?


What about the installation placed some doubt on the correctness?


--
Joseph Hagarty

HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com

Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865

HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.

Originally Posted By: jpope
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Looks like there’s no air gap device for the dishwasher drain line. . .



Jeff Pope


JPI Home Inspection Service


“At JPI, we’ll help you look better”


(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: whandley
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Hey Earl;


What area of the structure are we looking at? Is this a mobile or modular home? Is that exposed 120v romex wiring behind the plumbing? Are you questioning the placement and or alignment of the plumbing and fixtures?

![icon_question.gif](upload://t2zemjDOQRADd4xSC3xOot86t0m.gif)


Originally Posted By: ecox1
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whandley wrote:
Hey Earl;

What area of the structure are we looking at? Is this a mobile or modular home? Is that exposed 120v romex wiring behind the plumbing? Are you questioning the placement and or alignment of the plumbing and fixtures?

![icon_question.gif](upload://t2zemjDOQRADd4xSC3xOot86t0m.gif)

This is under the kitchen sink.no it's not a mobile or modular home.it is a romex wiring exposed behind the plumbing.
is this ok.


Originally Posted By: whandley
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Not in California. Most jurisdictions require interior 120/240v romex to be protected so as to prevent physical damage.


Go Colts!!

![icon_idea.gif](upload://6VKizmOm2U7YYmfXNtFW4XTwFVy.gif)


Originally Posted By: dnice
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jpope wrote:
Looks like there's no air gap device for the dishwasher drain line. . .


Jeffrey,

How could you even see that from this picture. I see the hose but I don't see either end so who knows if there is an air gap or not. Also it is not code everywhere.


--
David Nice
National Certified Inspection Services, Inc.
Wauwatosa, WI
http://www.nationalcertified.com

Originally Posted By: jpope
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dnice wrote:
Jeffrey,

How could you even see that from this picture. I see the hose but I don't see either end so who knows if there is an air gap or not.


That white corrugated line is what most dishwashers come equipped with. The short run from the air-gap device is typically black rubber.

![](upload://ckbqB2a49d0FCE5anZ3CY6V6ngq.jpeg)

It's an educated guess, but my money says there's no air-gap based on what is visible in the picture.

dnice wrote:
Also it is not code everywhere.


Protection against cross-contamination is a code requirement in most jurisdictions.


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: bking
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If an air gap device is not required, at least a “high loop method” should be present.



www.BAKingHomeInspections.com

Originally Posted By: whandley
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Do any of the model codes accept a high loop drain line method as being sufficient for preventing cross contamination?


Originally Posted By: jpope
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whandley wrote:
Do any of the model codes accept a high loop drain line method as being sufficient for preventing cross contamination?


None that I am aware (for a dishwasher).

An air gap device or "integral backflow preventer" is required.

The "high loop" is reserved for sinks an lavatories.


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: bkelly2
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http://www.home-inspect.com/itatips/04-03.asp


High loop


--
"I used to be disgusted, Now I try to Be amused"-Elvis Costello

Originally Posted By: escanlan
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Quote:
SECTION P2717
DISHWASHING MACHINES
P2717.1 Protection of water supply. The water supply for
dishwashers shall be protected by an air gap or integral back-
flow preventer.

Residential or domestic dishwashers must conform to
ASSE 1006. This standard includes protection of the
potable water supply against backflow. Units conform-
ing to this standard possess backflow protection con-
sisting of an internal, integral backflow prevention de-
vice. Where a unit does not meet this standard,
protection must be provided by means of an air gap.


P2717.2Sinkanddishwasher.Asink anddishwasher are per-
mitted to discharge through a single 1.5-inch (38mm)trap. The
discharge pipe from the dishwasher shall be increased to a
minimum of 0.75 inch (19.1 mm) in diameter and shall be con-
nected with a wye fitting to the sink tailpiece. The dishwasher
waste line shall rise and be securely fastened to the underside of
the counter before connecting to the sink tailpiece.

Dishwashing machines may connect directly to the
drainage system and do not require an indirect con-
nection by drainage air gap or air break. The direct
connection is acceptable, because the potable water
supply is adequately protected against backflow.
Many domestic dishwasher manufacturers require the
waste line to be looped as high as possible and to be
securely fastened to the underside of the sink rim or
countertop tominimize the potential of waste backflow
into the dishwasher unit. See Commentary Figure
P2717.2.



--
Manny (Emmanuel) Scanlan

Knowledge is power, but sharing knowledge brings peace!

Originally Posted By: mtimpani
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I see crimped lines. Is that polybutylene?



Thank you, MarkTimpani


www.pridepropertyinspections.com

Originally Posted By: rcooke
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ecox1 wrote:
[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/D/DSCF0082.JPG ]
is this ok

Not sure of the feed lines but I always recommend that the plastic lines going to the sink be replaced with Burst proof lines cost about $5;00.
I have a friend who this spring had one split under her kitchen sink cost about $35,000;00 to fix the damage and she could not live there for about 3 months.
The lady next door had a leak last week called me and same thing Plastic feed split .


--
Roy Cooke Sr.

http://Royshomeinspection.com

Originally Posted By: dnice
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bkelly2 wrote:
http://www.home-inspect.com/itatips/04-03.asp

High loop


What I see in that diagram is what I see in most DWs I have seen with air gaps. The same type of flex tube goes to AND from the air gap itself. So in the original picture I questioned the assumption that there was no air gap. It doesn't show the slope but the amount of that line showing does not preclude that there is a slope.
![](upload://7XYDX1Cd78QSIEiXvtxBV3Y04Qo.gif)
I installed a new GE DW in my uncle's kitchen and it had just such a setup. If I were to take a picture that only showed the end going into the drain it would look the same as the original questioned picture. I have not seem use of black tubing from the air gap to the drain line (I guess it could be common in some localities).


--
David Nice
National Certified Inspection Services, Inc.
Wauwatosa, WI
http://www.nationalcertified.com

Originally Posted By: ecox1
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mtimpani wrote:
I see crimped lines. Is that polybutylene?


No that's not polybutylene


Originally Posted By: ecox1
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Yes the is a air gap device for the dishwasher drain