Dishwasher drain

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1

Originally Posted By: rpasquier
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Ok Guys, this just looks wrong to me. want to know what you guys think.


This is the top of the sink, you can of course see the vent on the right side.

![](upload://cjraXKt9ld7wFEFQ7Pj0nvqohd5.jpeg)

Now, this is under the sink, going into the vent.



the right hand hose is the Dishwasher drain tube, the one on the left goes down to the drain pipe, into a Y.


So, this pipe comes in from the bottom of the Cupboard next to the dishwasher....


Up to the vent, and then back down to the drain.

This does NOT at all look right to me, looking for some reactions from you guys, is this a proper installation?

Thanks

2

Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


From what you’ve shown, it’s perfectly acceptable and even recommended. The only picture missing that may make it unacceptable is the picture showing the hose from the air gap connecting to the drain pipe or garbage disposal. I’m presuming that the connection to the drain pipe is OK.


The fitting on the sink is called an air gap device. It is meant to prevent water in the sink and plumbing system from backflowing into the dishwasher.

Two typical methods of preventing this are the air gap device on the sink and what's called a high loop system. In the high loop system, the hose from the dishwasher comes into the cabinet under the sink, is fastened to the bottom of the counter by various methods and then down to the drain connection, either on the garbgage disposal or the tailpiece of the drain system meant for dishwasher attachment.

I'm really tired or I'd probably find a more tactful way of saying this but, I sincerely hope you are one of the new members still studying for the inspection profession instead of an active inspector. If you are, congratulations for having the gumption to post what may seem a silly question to experienced inspectors. If you are an active inspector, PLEASE, get some education before continuing. This is very basic stuff in inspections.

Google "Dishwasher Air Gap Device" or "Dishwasher Drain Connection for more information on this topic.

--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky
www.b4uclose.com

3

Originally Posted By: rpasquier
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Thank you, and yes, I am fairly new to this profession, but had not run across a drain like this before.


Had not studied this particular plumbing situation in my home inspection class, so wanted to ask before I made any kind of statement in my report about it.

Now that I have asked the question, and recieved an answer, I now have learned what I need to know when I see this again.

This house did not have a garbage disposal.

Thank you for your reply.

My apologies that this was so basic, but I am not a plumber, and again, it was never mentioned in my home inspection school.

Thank you for your answer, I am now a better home inspector because of it.

Oh, and please tell me that you aren't in sales of any sort, because your tactful response tells me that you are obviously not ready for it. tired or not.

Sorry, but such a general cutting down on such a question was way out of proportion to the question asked as far as I am concerned.

I needed help, so I asked for it, but with those kinds of responses, a lot of new inspectors will be unwilling to ask these questions.

I thought that this was NACHI, but you sound an awful lot like ASHI.

Maybe you joined the wrong organization? Or thought that you were posting on another board?

I joined this organization in order to get help from other inspectors about situations I had not seen before. There is no way that I can be an expert on everything. This particular configuration I had not run across before, and you cut me down like I am some kind of petulant, misbehaving child? This is not the reason that I joined this organization. I joined because I thought that I would get help, nonjudgemental help and advice when I needed it.

Perhaps I got the wrong idea? Or perhaps I have just gotten unlucky enough to run across an old timer with an attitude problem?

But, again, thank you for answering my question.

4

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Erby’s right. Its recommended in many dishwasher installation situations, though not all.

–
Joe Farsetta


Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."
5

Originally Posted By: lwilliams
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Don’t let the ‘old timer’s’ reply stop you from posting your questions Richard, there is no such thing as a silly question here just the occasional poorly expressed answer… Welcome to the group, keep posting icon_lol.gif

6

Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Richard,


My apologies. I have seen air gaps far & wide, but have been thoroughly chastised by others in private letting me know that air gaps are not so nearly so universal as I thought.

I'm glad I could contribute to your education.

I'm sorry I contributed to your angst.

I'm glad you had the gumption and common sense to ask before reporting to your client.

--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky
www.b4uclose.com

7

Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Air gaps are not used down here, the ‘high loop’ is used instead.


Those air gaps have a tendency to leak. All over the sink, all over the counter top, all over all over.

Most, if not all, manufacturers give the option of using a 'high loop' instead of an air gap. In those cases (i.e., most if not all), the 'high loop' meets code as most codes state wording to the effect that:

1) Specific requirements take precedence over general requirements. Manufacturer requirements are specific requirements and code requirements are general requirements.

2) Where there is a conflict between code sections, the most stringent shall apply. This does not apply to the manufacturer installation instructions are they have already been given precedence over the code. This applies where there are two contradictory code sections.

Besides, the codes also state that everything should be installed as tested, listed, and labeled (which is the manufacturer installation instructions) and the manufacturer's installation instructions.

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

8

Originally Posted By: rpasquier
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


First off, I wish to apologize to Erby, I got a little angry at your response, and gave back what I felt you had given.


My apologies.

I will have to ask the buyers realtor what is actually wrong with the dishwasher, I was told NOT to test it, because it was broken.

Anybody want to lay bets that the dishwasher sprays the coutnertops out the air gap when it drains?

If that is the case, you guys just helped me save my buyer about $300 for a new dishwasher.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Best Regards,

Richard

9

Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Sometimes a piece of food or gunk gets stuck in the air gap blocking it. Free the food and it works again. That is usually what causes it to leak on the counter.


Air Gaps typically cost about $10-$15 and are easily installed/replaced.

--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky
www.b4uclose.com

10

Originally Posted By: rmello
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


rpasquier wrote:
Ok Guys, this just looks wrong to me. want to know what you guys think.

This is the top of the sink, you can of course see the vent on the right side.

![](upload://cjraXKt9ld7wFEFQ7Pj0nvqohd5.jpeg)

Now, this is under the sink, going into the vent.



the right hand hose is the Dishwasher drain tube, the one on the left goes down to the drain pipe, into a Y.


So, this pipe comes in from the bottom of the Cupboard next to the dishwasher....


Up to the vent, and then back down to the drain.

This does NOT at all look right to me, looking for some reactions from you guys, is this a proper installation?

Thanks
looks like a mobile home unit (sink) i took mine out
11

Originally Posted By: wrobedeau
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


The shown air gap will not work with some dishwashers. I had to go to the plumbing supply and order one made of brass, which deflected the water downward, after several tries of using a plastic one. I haddiscarded the brass one I took. If the volume of the pump and pressure are high it can splash and overflow. If it overflows I would suggest a trip to the plumbing supply house. It seems they are the only ones have something other than the plastic air gap available.


Bill Robedeau

12

Originally Posted By: dvalley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


William,


You are absoluetly correct. I just had one two weeks ago that was spewing the dishwasher drainage right out of this air vent.

Not connected properly.![](upload://qFmolxc9QZ5xuDZTe21e7GGQAta.gif)

--
David Valley
MAB Member

Massachusetts Certified Home Inspections
http://www.masscertified.com

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."

13

Originally Posted By: rpasquier
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Update, the buyer decided NOT to buy the house.


It had rotted soffits, the roof underlayment was literally delaminating and rotting away, the bottom section of the garage door was rotted from water penetration and the cause of it all, the gutters, were hanging off the roof anywhere from 1/4 to 3", ALL around the house. The water had literally made a ditch in the yard from their leaking... it was BAD!!!

The electrical panel I wouldn't even touch, the breakers were loose in the box, 3 screws for the cover were missing, and a buzzing noise was coming from inside, uh uh, I don't think so.

There was also a HUGE lake at the bottom of the driveway, and there was NO way to drain it, and the water meter was buried in mud, this house had a myriad of problems.

The air gap device is indeed what was wrong, water would spew out of that little puppy like a fountain. I hope the owner has fixed it, because the renters had dishes piled 8-10 high in the sink, because they wouldn't and couldn't use the dishwasher.

Oh, and I reported the electrical box to the owner of the property, I hope he fixed it, because those renters had some high powered stereo equipment in there... The smell of ozone was NOT pretty....

14

Originally Posted By: rray
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Another common cause of water flowing through the sink top air gap device is improper installation of a dishwasher and/or disposal. There is a blocking piece in the disposal where the dishwasher hose connects to the disposal. If that piece is not removed prior to hooking up the dishwasher hose, water will be diverted to the sink top. A common problem here with new installations for some strange reason (seasonal workers from south of the border where disposals and dishwashers are not common?), and a quick fix (remove hose, remove blocking piece, re-attach hose), although not a fix that home inspectors should be doing, of course.


In our neighborhood, we prefer the sink top device. Usually the dishwasher also has a built-in backflow device, but the additional sink top device is always recommended if it is missing. We find high loops mostly at kitchen island dishwashers.

![icon_twisted.gif](upload://xjO326gspdTNE5QS3UTl0a0Rtvy.gif)

--
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.

15

Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Duh, s#!t here too! Nothing to do with the dishwasher or the air gap but instead the garbage disposal.


I put a new disposal in for my sister-in-law a couple of years ago. I knew damn well, and thought about it when installing the disposal, that I needed to remember to remove that one little piece blocking the end of the dishwasher tailpipe connection to the garbage disposal.

Somehow, I got distracted and didn't.

The next night, she called and asked how come the dishwasher would spew water all over the place.

Yeah, the lightbulb went off. Duh, s#!t!

Ah well, I still got a nice steak dinner out of it a week or so later.

--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky
www.b4uclose.com

16

Originally Posted By: rray
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Erby, you’re too hard on yourself. A simple “Been there, done that” would suffice. icon_lol.gif




--
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.