. I could not open this panel board to evaluate inside.
Inside the inspected unit, the main panel only has 3 wires servicing the panel board with the neutral and ground bonded. There is no labeling on the meter main assembly as to being an “emergency disconnect or service disconnect”. Other units nearby have “Service Disconnect” labels applied to the meter main. (yes the knockouts and drywall compound was addressed).
I am aware that typically the bond needs to occur at the first means of disconnect and only one bond can occur (at the meter-main). Yet, I recall @rmeier2 mentioning the new “Emergency Disconnect” labeling may allow this set up.
Yet it also mentions 1-or 2 family dwellings- this is a 3 unit dwelling.
Would this be corrected by applying the correct label, or does the meter-main need to be bonded and a fourth wire brought to the sub-panel and bonds removed?
This is a 2021 build. Not that I ever quote the code, but does 230.85 emergency disconnect apply to this? Did they just forget to apply the correct label, or does it need to be bonded?
Also curious about the wording of 1-or 2 family dwelling, what does that mean for anything more than 2 family?
Did I use up my allowable questions about bonding? I know that I keep coming back here with what might seem like the same question, but to me, these are not.
Let me ask again, as this potential concern may be grander than just the unit I am inspecting.
Can a 2021 build have a meter and main disconnect located on a detached garage not be bonded? Would applying an “Emergency Disconnect” label make it valid? Does this even pertain to a unit that is larger than 2 families?
TIA
Sorry for the wrong wording. What I was calling the meter-main I guess should be considered a service panel, and the panel inside is a distribution panel.
I received a response back from the state inspector who allowed the setup to happen.
“If the building started construction in 2020 it would have fallen under the 2017 code cycle. Due to Covid we didn’t adopt 2020 NEC until April of 2021 I believe. What my predecessor---- allowed I can’t speak for. Depending on the distance from an out building he may have allowed bonding to occur at the dwelling.”
Since this is in writing from the state inspector, I am accepting this. Yet it still leaves me confused as @rmeier2 and others have stated that it was prior to 2008 NEC this was acceptable. Once again, I feel that I am still missing a part of the acceptable puzzle.
Yes, and that magic distance is ??? At the discretion of who? Or is there a written distance that I have searched high and low and just cant seem to locate- for future reference.
No, there is no distance that is acceptable I believe, per the code. But I could definitely see the electrical inspector letting it go it the distance was short.
What was the distance between the structures in your case, roughly?
There is no permissible distance. Since the installation is signed off (incorrectly) by the inspector and given the fact that it was at one time permissible to use a 3-wire feeder I don’t see how anyone is going to bother to change it.
Thank you for the answer. This is the uphill battle for me trying to understand what I learn from you guys as “national” standard vs a “VT standard”. Ask 10 electricians around here, and 5 of them will say that this setup was, and some say still is, acceptable.
I feel that half the time I wear egg on my face depending on what electrician the realtor brings my report to.
I know that you’re not a code inspector but if you know the applicable code in the jurisdiction at the time of installation you should be able to figure out if it’s code compliant.
When you are dealing with electrical services and anything upstream of the service, rules are usually determined by utility companies, not local, state or federal standards. States delegate that authority directly to the utility companies. Usually, only state fire marshals can trump utility companies.
Utility companies usually publish their standards online. In my electrical classes for home inspectors, this is one of the things that I put a lot of emphasis on. Local inspection authorities (or mayors council members, trustees, etc) usually coordinate with the utility companies. You need to know what your local requirements are. They may be different from the NEC.
Thank you George, I appreciate that answer. This helps direct me to something more concrete in this area.
Unfortunately most of the time, a majority of the AHJ around here plays the game “Not our responsibility”. I was on an inspection a few months back with the POCO doing a meter swap. Exact scenario described above, asked the supervisor on site his thoughts about the lack of proper bond at the service disconnect- his response was “We don’t care what happens after the meter tbh, just as long as there are 2 ground rods.”
