buyers Hiring Contractors to do Home Inspections

General Inspection Topics General Inspection Discussion
21

OK - it sounds like either you or I are misunderstanding the motivation of the clients in this given scenario.

To me, these people were not at all interested in the smaller items that an HI might find (to use your example: broken thermal seals and tripping hazards), and are instead worried that the major systems and components of the home are good. That is someone who is either a candidate for a BASIC inspection (if they want a generalist’s opinion of their electric, plumbing, etc) or a TECH (or exhaustive) inspection if they want a professioanl evaluation and money is not a concern.

Yes, TECH inspections are expensive. Yes, they do take some significant amount of coordination and manipulation to produce a concise and useful final report form several individual reports (that’s why you can charge more).

They are, however, lucrative if you have very high end communities in your area.

Now, if they just want a generalist’s opinion and don’t mind someone referring out evaluations of the specific systems and items (i.e “recommend evaluation and correction, as needed, by a qualified …”) then a BASIC inspection by an HI would be appropriate (assuming that they are not interested in, or can recognize for themselves, the items we listed earlier).

Since they went the route of seeking out contractors, that tells me that they were seeking a “specialist’s” (trade pro’s) opinion right from the start. They wanted a complete evaluation of specific major systems and components by a pro who would not refer out the work or equivocate about what they see and how much it will cost to repair. It does not mean they disrepect home inspectors, it just means they wanted something specific that most home inspectors cannot offer.

There are a lot of buyers for whom a generalist’s opinion is useful, informative, and appropriate. There are other buyers who want a specific professioanl opinion about specific items and systems. There are buyers for whom cost is the single biggest factor, and buyers for whom cost is no object.

For all of these reasons, offering a variety of inspections makes perfect sense, and does work. I have offered choices in inspection levels here for going on 6 months now, and business has picked up each month.

It may not be for you, or your area, but it doesn’t cost anything more to offer. Not all clients have the same needs and expecations of an inspection. Clearly, these people wanted something specific but could not find an inspector who offered anything like what they wanted.

22

Unfortunatly folks we live in a “SUE HAPPY” world. The InspectVue program is proof of this. It boils down to this… how much “risk” are you willing to take on in your inspections and are you comfortable with the service you provide? I think it`s a matter of conscience that you have to live with after you collect your fee for “services rendered”.

23

I hear what you are saying but do not agree 100% This so called wise woman that called in these contrators is missing the point. She is only calling in a plumber and an electrcian. Do you see a big gap here? I do. Remember early in my post I mentioned that we had a hail storm here in Ponca City, OK about 2 months ago. People all over town are getting new roofs, I was one of them. I gave this so called wise or smart woman some free advice about her roof. She replied that the roof was new, she did not need a roof inspection (do you see flawed logic here?) I said it is new? How new? when was it installed? She said she did not know. I advised her again, you really need to get the roof inspected by someone. This same woman that hired me over the phone to do the structural inspector for only $100 bucks called me back to fire me after I called her about her lawyer calling me. I guess she did not like me questioning her about that. After her lawyer gave me a hard time on the phone I called NACHI legal department and they said that was a RED FLAG and I might want to decline that job. That is why I called her back about the lawyer I was concerned that maybe she was sue happy. So this whole deal did not set well with me and was a big turn off to say the least. I do not think this woman is very samrt at all but a puppet and will do anything her lawyer tells her to do.

The wise people who hire me (not saying I am the best but I give it 100%) are usually people who heard about me and how good I was and people who are smart enought to think for theirselves and research to find a true independent inspector which I am. One time I did an inspection for a big shot that managed the CONOCO refinery that we have here. He was a very intellegent educated man, and knew exactly what he wanted. Did go and hire a bunch of contrators? No he did not. He hired me and I also did some mold testing, we really took a hard look at the floor registers (around this part of the country a lot of slab foundation homes have the HVAC vents embedded in the slab) and found corrsion, mold and tar where they had been patched. My client did not like that and I dont blame him. We did 2nd mold test and finally got permission to move a big screen TV and found a floor vent that was completley rusted through. Later on he wanted to check the HVAC more thouroghly which I said was a good idea but the seller had a ton of boxes stacked in the way. We got permission and my client, seller and I started moving boxes, then we got an HVAC contractor out so we could dismatle the HVAC Unit to look inside. The first contractor which by the way is married to a Realtor did not find much. My client was nto satified, I told hoim about another contrator which I thought was good and he did a better job. He found water standing in the bottom of the plenum. Guess what? my client got a brand new HVAC unit top notch, placed in the attic, all flor vents plugged off and installed new ceiling vents. The cost which the seller paid for was about $10,000. My clioent was very very happy with all of my work and staying with the job until completed. We had to go through two contractors but problem solved. So you see here is a case where the client was very savy and knew what he wanted and he knew I was independent and would not be soft on inspections. My client by the way had plenty of money and could have hired a truck load of contrators if he had wanted to. I still say that a wise client will first hire a darn good inspector that will really get in there and work for them, then call out the contractors that are needed.

I guess you can view a deal killer several ways, and I am sure there are some inspectors that will call out every tiny crack. I am not one of those people. I explain to my clients not to worry about hairline cracks and such on a foundtaion or even wall, but if they are larger and say diagonal above a doorway or window then you have settling and maybe structural problems, it really depends. So I try not to be alarmist and have tried to explain things better and what can be done. But still buyers will choose not to buy a house cometimes just because my inspections are good and they make that choice. This does not happen all the time, it happens sometimes. So I have come to the conclusion it is not me, it is the greedy Realtors that want to make the sale and they do not care about the buyer. I have been yelled at threatened, you name it by Realtors over the years. I now have very little respect for them. My clients on the other hand love me and some have hired me twice, they love my reports and I have saved a couple of clients $10,000 which does not happen very often. One was when I found record levels of radon here in Ponca City, OK. I was yelled at by a Realtor over that, even the buyer did not believe my findings but it was verified later on. The old saying do not shoot the messager applies. I feel if you are doing a good job for your clients you will not be liked very well by most Realtors, if you are liked by Realtors then you need and think maybe you are getting to cozy with them. Go to IHINA and read the philosophy on that web site about Realtors.

24

That is exactly why home inspectors should offer re-inspections (at a cost) to their Clients. Just because other professionals did repairs on a structure doesn’t mean the repairs were done right, and we’re the only ones who are going to tell our Clients that. Charge for that knowledge and charge for the additional opinion. It’s a very lucrative business, money left on the table for people liike me who are willing to HELP before, during, and after the inspection.

25

Work with your business advisors to set up several different inspections from your prospective Clients can choose. For example, I have LIST, BASIC, STANDARD, PREMIUM, TECH, RENTER, SPOT, MAINTENANCE, DRIVEBY, FLYBY, VOICE, ASK, WALK, and CARRY inspections. The meet different needs for different Clients in different circumstances. The structural inspection she wanted you to do would have been my SPOT inspection.

These would be my prices on a 1750-SF SFR:

LIST - $299
BASIC - $399
STANDARD - $499
PREMIUM - $799
TECH - $1,399
RENTER - $299
SPOT - $100 per hour
MAINTENANCE - $299
DRIVEBY - $199
FLYBY - $79
VOICE - $109
ASK - $139
WALK - $199
CARRY - $159

Because of the volatility in gas prices, my prices are adjusted on a daily basis, so prices might change tomorrow.

26

Sounds like you also need the doctor/surgeon analogy:

When one is working with a prospective Client who just wants a plumber, an electrician, and a structural inspection, ask them if the plumber built the chimney, ask them if the electrician installed the roofing, as them if the structural engineer built the windows and doors, etc. It took many, many individuals to build the house, and to inspect it would require someone who knows something about everything (a generalist home inspector) or lots of specialists.

For a 1750-SF SFR, here’s some average prices in my area:

STANDARD home inspection - $399

or complete system evaluations by:

Plumber (water and sewer plumbing only) - $200
Electrician - $300
Roofing contractor - $200
Chimney Sweep - $150
Structural Engineer - $500
Pest Control - $150
HVAC - $100
Window and door installer - $150
Garage vehicle door installer - $85
Landscaper - $50
Kitchen appliance installations (home inspector) - $100
Total - $1,985

The only person I can find who will inspect all the kitchen appliances is another home inspector, so since he is already there, why not let him do the whole inspection for another $299?

It is highly unlikely that a home inspector would recommend a complete system evaluation by all those other professionals, so it is highly likely that a prospective Client can save a lot of money by using the home inspector.

Additionally, try scheduling and coordinating all those other inspections. Mr Client is going to be taking a lot of time off from work, or have a Realtor who will really be earning those commission dollars.

Note from my previous post that my TECH inspection on that house would be $1,399, so they even save money by letting me coordinate all the various professionals. That’s because these are the only licensed members of my TECH inspection team:

Plumber (water and sewer plumbing only) - $200
Electrician - $300
Roofing contractor - $200
Chimney Sweep - $150
HVAC - $100
Total - $950

I do everything else within the confines of law (seller does pest control). If a structural engineer is required, that cost is extra.

Note also that my STANDARD inspection of $399 gets increased to $449 as part of the TECH inspection for the aggravation of having to coordinate all those other professionals. Additionally, note that a TECH inspection requires 14 days notice, so it is not for short escrows. I did have one TECH inspection where the Client called two weeks into the 17-day inspection contingency period. They were quite adamant (they were from Boston) that they wanted a TECH inspection and wanted to know what to do. I told them that they should have their Realtor request an extension. Realtor was not happy with me since I guess that obviously pushed her commission paycheck out by another two weeks. Seller also was not happy. But the fact of the matter is that in those high-end properties, it is always easier to keep a buyer in the fold than it is to go out and find another buyer. Ultimately, everything got accomplished and everyone was happy.

By the way, many home inspection companies throughout the nation quite often use licensed professionals in other industries as members of their inspection teams. It’s a great way for a home inspector to inspect the roof without walking on it. :slight_smile:

27

That is interesting offing different levels of inspections, I wonder how it would work around here? The only problem I can think of right off hand is if a contrator screws up and misses something wouldn’t we be responsible?

28

Not if you, your attorneys, your insurance advisors, and your report writers word things appropriately.

29

Yes…and your E&O would not cover their mistakes…just yours. Be careful with this kind of stuff.

30

She is only calling in a plumber and an electrcian. Do you see a big gap here?

No Larry she did not call a plumber or an electrican she called me I filled your gap.

31

Man speak of the Devil! You are the one that told a friend of mine (Steve Barry) lies about me to steal the inspection. You are married to a Realtor and kiss B____ with them to get referrals. You dare come on here and tell me you filled the gap! So what kind of stories did you tell this woman about me?

32

Unless you have a copy of his E&O policy, it’s difficult that “your E&O would not cover their mistakes.” Notwithstanding, HomeTeam franchises have been using subcontractors for over a decade as members of their teams with no problems whatsoever. Perhaps we just have a better subcontractor’s agreement.

But, yes, as with everything in life, be careful, i.e., work with your attorneys to create a subcontractor’s agreement that is valid for your city, county, and state, and then run it by your E&O provider for confirmation.

33

According to Ben Garrison of FREA (feel free to chime in, if you read this, Ben) your E&O premiums are based upon your actions as a home inspector, only. You have not paid the insurance company to cover the actions of others and they are not compelled to pay should the actions of others result in a lawsuit.

34

Larry another way to help you is to say “yes, I can do that.” She wants just the roof? yes! Just the plumbing? yes! Just change the contract so it reads that this is not a home inspection. I try not to argue when people want to give me money. I just try to accommodate.

35

Larry you have no friends; no PR at all your so called friend Steve called me I did not call him when people call me I do not ask them if they know any other HI’s not part of my phone protocol???

As for me coming on this board I have been here off and on for years where have you been.

Yes I am married to a Realtor and have been for 37 years. My inspections stand by themselves you stated business for you was slow and have only done 500 to 600 total since starting your business.

My total is approaching 2000 that should tell you something.

Yes there are two Real Estate companies in Ponca that use nothing but contractors for inspections and I blame you for that as I have had many Realtors state that all your inspections reports just defer everything to contractors, so their thinking is why not just have the contractors do it in the first place.

Realtors say Larry does not walk the roofs and does not crawl the crawl spaces he is going to get us in a Law suit.

As for me Kissing Realtors A**'s don’t have to. You probably don’t know that I testified in court against the top Realtor in Ponca and it cost me over 100K in business I just moved on. I inspect in Enid, Wellington KA, Beeville OKC, Stillwater, Perry, Guthrie, Lahoma Carmen, Jet, Nash. What ever it takes???

You Really should stop whining get off of your Butt get some CE and start marketing your self. All you want to do is blame Realtors for your misgiving instead of yourself.

36

Maybe you missed what I said early in the thread, or maybe I did not explain it well on here, but I did say yes! I said yes to this woman. I was just trying to help her understand that a complete home inspection is best not to hire separate contractors but went on to say that if she wanted me to do the structural then yes I will do that for her. She called me back and hired me over the phone, but then later her lawyer called me and started interrogating me which was very weird. This is why I came in here to ask you guys if you have ever had a situation like that. Remember I also called NACHI legal department and they told me that was a red flag that her lawyer called me. That is when I called her and politely asked told her that her lawyer called and I had some concerns. Some people are sue happy and thought that maybe she was one of these people. Anyway I lost the job and was kind of glad. Now Charlie for some reason wanted to throw that in my face that he filled my gap! So now it has become double weird.

37

That’s better information than your previous post. As Ben told us previously (feel free to chime in, if you read this, Ben), FREA is a broker, and while they believe they have a very good policy, there are better policies for inspectors with different circumstances.

I’ve checked with FREA each time my E&O came due, and they just can’t match my current policy, which is through Lloyds of London/Business Risk Partners. Most HomeTeam franchises have E&O that covers their subcontractors, especially the larger franchises that do 2,000-4,000 inspections a year. But even then, the subcontracting relationship has to be set up properly, which means an appropriate signed agreement in place between the home inspector and his subcontractors. That, of course, means working with one’s attorneys and E&O provider to create that appropriate agreement for one’s city, county, and state.

38

After reading your posts over the years, that is exactly what I would have expected of you.

39

Larry, Depending on which browser you are using, you may have to"paste: using “Control – V”

On your subject of using specialist there have been several discussions on this board over the past few months about the “Team” approach to Home Inspection, where a NACHI Inspector hires or subs out the different portions of their Inspection to licensed Electricians, Plumbers, SE’s, ETC., some claim to be getting $1000 to $1500 or more per inspection claiming they are offering a Superior Home Inspection, maybe they do? In my opinion the Inspector who operates this way is just a Marketer and Salesman, he finds the jobs and has his “Team” performs the Inspection, maybe that’s a good idea, if your market will handle $1500 Inspections, but with the usual short time period that the buyer has to “Inspect” the property, it might be difficult to get all the “Licensed Professionals” together to perform the Home Inspection within the required time. I’ve thought about offering “Technical Inspections” in my area.

I live in what several National magazines call Baby Boomer Heaven, the number One Boomer Retirement Community, I’ve met a lot of Licensed Tradesmen who moved here from other areas and are “semi retired”, just interested in doing enough work to support their Hobbies, I may talk to a few of them, it may work here with the number of $$$Million plus Homes for sale around here.

40

Allen Insurance requires you to list your Subcontractors, seeing as I don’t use any at the present time I don’t know if or how much any additional fee would be. If I used Subs I would require them to have their own Insurance, but I would cover my a$$ by making sure my policy covered me in the event of Claims made against the subs.