Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
The main disconnect is the “service panel.” The other panel (with all of the homes circuit breakers) is an “equipment panel” (sub panel) and should be wired as such (as it appears to be).
This appears to be a set-up similar those found in mobile or manufactured homes.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: Matthew Metzger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hey Jeff, I was hoping I would catch you hear, I have been reading your posts on many boards for some time now. So is there anything that needs to be changed or done here? I thought that we needed to have main disconnects handy in case of emergency? How would I have known that this was a sub panel? No main disconnect? Thanks for the help!
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Any panel “down stream” of the service panel is considered an equipment panel (sub panel). The panel containing the “main disconnect” is typically the service panel.
This main disconnect will shut down power to the entire EP and any subsequent EP's further down stream.
Generally speaking, the first panel in line with the service entrance is the service panel and each panel afterward is an equipment panel (EP) or sub panel (Bob B. doesn't like us to use that term  )
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: dvalley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Matt,
You might want to write up the numerous double lugging of neutrals. There's plenty of room for an Electrician to have them separated to one neutral wire per screw.
Originally Posted By: Matthew Metzger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Ok thanks David. It seems that I have read some where that double lugging of the neutrals isn’t a big deal? Or is it just because there is ample room in this sub pannel? Thanks Matt
Originally Posted By: bbadger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Matthew Metzger wrote:
Thanks Jeff, any problem with the main disconnect 150 ft. away from the house, besides not being typical?
Matthew, I agree with all Jeff has said.
Here is the relevant NEC section regarding the service disconnecting means.
Quote:
230.70(A)
(1) Readily Accessible Location.
The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors.
Notice no distance is given for service disconnecting means outside.
-- Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: Matthew Metzger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Huh. Well it is readily accessible, you would think there would be some point or measurement it would need to be within. Sounds like it could be on the other side of the block as long as it’s accessible.
Are double lugged neutrals always wrote up as needing to be changed? What if they run out of lugs?
Originally Posted By: bbadger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jpope wrote:
Generally speaking, the first panel in line with the service entrance is the service panel and each panel afterward is an equipment panel (EP) or sub panel (Bob B. doesn't like us to use that term  )
Jeff, regarding subpanels I don't know what to call them, the NEC does not call them anything.
To the NEC a 'subpanel' is treated no differently then an electric range.
Both are 'load side equipment' meaning isolated neutrals.
Quote:
250.142 Use of Grounded Circuit Conductor for Grounding Equipment.
(B) Load-Side Equipment.
Except as permitted in 250.30(A)(1) and 250.32(B), a grounded circuit conductor shall not be used for grounding non?current-carrying metal parts of equipment on the load side of the service disconnecting means........
Quote:
250.24(A)(5) Load-Side Grounding Connections.
A grounding connection shall not be made to any grounded circuit conductor on the load side of the service disconnecting means except as otherwise permitted in this article.
Given the choice I would rather say subpanel than 'load side equipment'
-- Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
[quote=“Matthew Metzger”]
Are double lugged neutrals always wrote up as needing to be changed? What if they run out of lugs?
I always write them up, but they don't always get fixed. If there aren't enough lugs (common in older panels) they can usually buy an extra grounding bar from the manufacturer and move some of the equipment grounds off on it, freeing up more terminals for the neutrals.
Originally Posted By: rmoore This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jpope wrote:
Any panel "down stream" of the service panel is considered an equipment panel (sub panel). The panel containing the "main disconnect" is typically the service panel.
Jeff...
With all due respect, I have to question your verbiage. I've never seen panels described as "equipment panels" before. I'm familiar with "Main panels", "distribution panels", the infamous "sub-panel", or, as per the NEC, just plain panelboards (when not used as service equipment).
Mathew...
Mr. Badger just beat me to posting the relevant section...gotta be fast around here! It would be "nice", and also OK, to have a main breaker at the panel, but not required. My understanding of the requirement for a restricted number of throws (main breaker, etc) on an easily accessible service disconnect is that it is more for outside first responders (read firefighters) to be able to quickly disconnect power to the home rather than for the homeowner himself. This particular situation is little different from a main panel in a condo with the service disconnect out at the street or in a mechanical room.
-- Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
rmoore wrote:
Jeff...
With all due respect, I have to question your verbiage. I've never seen panels described as "equipment panels" before.
 I got beat up for several months on this board for referring to these as "sub" panels before I finally caved.
Load side equipment would be the more proper term I believe. Being that it is a "panel" and also "load side equipment," makes the term "equipment panel" or, as Bob said, "load side equipment". . . panel
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
250.24(A)(5) Load-Side Grounding Connections.
A grounding connection shall not be made to any grounded circuit conductor on the load side of the service disconnecting means except as otherwise permitted in this article.
Could this exception be for a sub panel in a separate building equipped with a GES?
I know I've asked this before, but I'm not sure I've ever got a straight answer 
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: Kenneth Hartman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
one thing to look for, if the main is rated higher than the rating on the panal box then you need an additional main. I.E. main 200 amps panal box 100 amps. also you might want to check on your local codes because some areas require that the service disconnect be locked if its outside and if this is the case you will need an additional disconnect inside the home. To be honest though I always locate my main inside the house because if someone wanted to rob the house they could turn off the main outside and you wouldn’t be able to see anything.
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Kenneth Hartman wrote:
Basically what there saying is that no nuetral wire on the load side can be grounded. grounded conductor nuetral. grounding conductor ground wire.
I understand the requirement, I am left wondering about the exception. Apparently Bob didn't come back to this thread and he left me standing here in the dark 
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
