Dirty panel

Originally Posted By: roconnor
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



jpeck wrote:
... [the breakers] just were not installed until trim out, the panel was oversprayed after rough in and before trim out.

Maybe, and maybe not. I didnt say recently replaced, and some of the no-spray outline of the wires going to the bars and breakers suggests replacement ... ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif) ... Maybe during construction, because it looks like the ends of the hot wires were wiped off. That would also indicate the electrician installing that, and any inspector that looked at that, found that "fix" acceptable ...

I agree it should not have been done that way. I just disagree that for an HI it's an automatic safety hazard that would clearly warrant a panel replacement. A licensed electrician should take a closer look at that to make the call, which I just think could go either way. You are pretty much stuck with the overspray on the wires ... and if the breakers, main bus bar, neutral/ground wires, and connections are all good (or corrected as needed) then what are you really accomplishing?

Do you see where I was going with this, and why I think that replacement is not a call the HI should make? I think Jeff made the right call ... at least as far as what he put in the report ... ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)


--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



I say again that panel is not salvageable, it is now junk.



Bob (AKA iwire)


ECN Discussion Forums


Mike Holt Code Forum

Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif


I love this forum

Regards

Gerry


--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



gbeaumont wrote:
In need of further evaluation by a licensed electrical contractor (but try to avoid that well known company of "Rob, Bob & Jerry electrical contracting" as they will all agree on the fact that it is need of repair, but won't be able to agree on how !!"


Gerry,

I say 'Burn the house down.' Then, when it's rebuilt, you will know that the old painted wiring will have been replaced with new wiring. ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

Originally Posted By: roconnor
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Gerry … Bob and I are usually on the same page, but you didn’t actually expect Jerry and I to agree on everything … icon_lol.gif


Come to think of it, we had been agreeing on things too much lately ... now what fun would that be ...


--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



gbeaumont wrote:
In need of further evaluation by a licensed electrical contractor (but try to avoid that well known company of "Rob, Bob & Jerry electrical contracting" as they will all agree on the fact that it is need of repair, but won't be able to agree on how !!"


Cool, I needed a good laugh after work today. ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)

Ask 10 electricians how to do something and you get 10 answers, 9 of them will probably be fine.

All 10 of us will think all the others are nuts.


--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum

Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Jeff and others


I know that you will take this the wrong way.

"Consider the source. I would challenge any handyman that made such a statement."

That is how Electrical Inspectors looks at your comments. I am repeating what other Electrical Inspectors have told me.

Can you look at this comment and NOT take it as an attack????

Mike P.


Originally Posted By: jpope
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Mike Parks wrote:
Can you look at this comment and NOT take it as an attack????


The difference is, I've got guys like you that have my back ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

More importantly, I've got specific training and education that qualifies me to make my statements and recommendations.


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: rray
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



But, Jeff, can you say definitively that a general handyman does not have specific education and training? Down here we have a lot of general handymen from south of the Border. We also have a lot of general handymen who are licensed electricians and licensed plumbers. The general handyman that I use is not only a licensed electrician and a licensed plumber, but he also is a licensed roofing contractor. That’s why I use him–one-stop shopping.


Someone once said, "Judge not lest ye be judged."

Here's what I put in my report at the advice of my counselors:

Quote
Inspectors are generalists, are not acting as experts in any craft or trade, and are conducting what is essentially a visual inspection. Home inspectors generally know something about everything and everything about nothing. If inspectors recommend consulting specialists or experts, Client agrees to do so at Client?s expense. Because such qualified personnel are experts, it is possible that they will discover additional problems that a home inspector generalist cannot. Any listed items in this report concerning areas reserved to such licensed experts should not be construed as a detailed, comprehensive, and/or exhaustive list of problems or areas of concern.

HOMETEAM recommends that any additional recommended inspections, evaluations, consultation, repair, and/or replacement be performed by qualified and/or licensed specialists before close of escrow. For repairs requiring a licensed specialist, Client should request repair and remediation by such licensed specialists in lieu of seller, and Client should request receipts for such work since seller, home owner, and other unlicensed individuals cannot guarantee or warranty their work.

Due to the nature of the real estate and service industry in Southern California, we also recommend that Client obtain at least three written quotes concerning any work to be done. HOMETEAM believes that Better Business Bureau (BBB) members typically provide better work than homeowners and non-BBB members. This generally is because companies that maintain membership in the Better Business Bureau are required by their membership to resolve complaints against their company. Therefore, they tend to do a better job in the first place rather than having to resolve complaints. Membership in the BBB is very stringent, and standards are high.

For common area properties, homeowner associations sometimes have qualified maintenance personnel available to help resolve problems, typically free or at a lower cost than independent qualified service personnel. Inquiry of homeowner associations should be made before hiring independent qualified service personnel. If we don?t make a specific recommendation, Client should examine the item in question to determine Client?s own needs relative to the item.
Unquote

![icon_twisted.gif](upload://xjO326gspdTNE5QS3UTl0a0Rtvy.gif)


--
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.

Originally Posted By: tallen
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Thats not the point Russel.


Do you state in your report: Evaluation by a good handyman is recomended ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif) ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)


--
I have put the past behind me,
where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.

www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: rray
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



I beg to differ, Todd. It is a point. And, yes, in a way I do recommend a general handyman. I state, “Recommend further evaluation by a qualified electrician.” A handyman certainly can be a qualified electrician, so it is a point. I also sometimes state “Recommend further evaluation by a qualified professional.” That certainly would let a qualified handyman do the work.


You might have read my post previous to the longer, edited version.

![icon_twisted.gif](upload://xjO326gspdTNE5QS3UTl0a0Rtvy.gif)


--
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.

Originally Posted By: tallen
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



OK OK I was just messing with ya icon_eek.gif no need to get upset



I have put the past behind me,


where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.


www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: rray
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Well, I apologize if I seemed upset. Margaritas don’t normally make me appear upset.


![icon_twisted.gif](upload://xjO326gspdTNE5QS3UTl0a0Rtvy.gif)


--
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.

Originally Posted By: tallen
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Stop editing your post after we read them icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif It’s note fair that’s cheating



I have put the past behind me,


where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.


www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: rray
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Yeah, I know. Sometimes it’s a problem with the longer ones. I sometimes edit ten times or so with the longer posts. I just don’t like typos, bad thoughts, and bad grammar in my posts. I do the same thing with my reports.


![icon_twisted.gif](upload://xjO326gspdTNE5QS3UTl0a0Rtvy.gif)


--
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.

Originally Posted By: jpope
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Simple,


If the handyman is a state licensed electrician (and/or contractor), he can say whatever he wants to say so long as he's putting his signature on it.

It's no longer my call nor my responsibility once I've deferred it. ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: tallen
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



I do it multiple times with my reports ,but this is a little different. I well, I am not that concerned with perfect grammar on the board.



I have put the past behind me,


where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.


www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: rray
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



I’m what they call AR. Work, personal life, whatever. Always striving for perfection. Never reaching it. Settling for margaritas instead.


![icon_twisted.gif](upload://xjO326gspdTNE5QS3UTl0a0Rtvy.gif)


--
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.

Originally Posted By: tallen
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



I agree Jeff icon_smile.gif


I always state a licensed whatever do the work after that it is not my problem



I have put the past behind me,


where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.


www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Joe Tedesco suggested some changes to the electrical portion of the NACHI COE, earlier in this thread.


But, before we all go and talk about changes to the NACHI SOP, there is a major consideration. It is unfortunate, but nevertheless a reality. That is the more comprehensive the SOP is, the more likely an HI will be to get sued for missing something. This is especially true when speaking of electrical issues.

NACHIs SOP is pretty much in line with the other major orgs. Any change to it may affect the perceptions of our E&O carriers. They must approve of the SOP you intend to follow.

So, before we go off and determine which codes apply, or whether a panel which has some paint inside needs an absolute replacement, or how far we should so when inspecting the electrical system, I would ask everyone to think about the process and what it means. Also keep in mind that this is not a code inspection by any stretch of the imagination.

I believe we need to keep the SOP simple, and truly THINK about what we may be proposing. In the end, the ESOP committee will need to review any proposed changes, vote on them, and pass it along to NACHI Corporate Counsel for an opinion. We've streamlined that process, as Joe Ferry is already ON the committee.

We also need to consider that NACHI is in negotiations with AIG to provide members with NACHI E&O. Any changes to the SOP at this time may impact those negotiations. Likewise, ask your current E&O insurer if the proposed changes to the COE gives him a case of the Orphan Annies. Folks who follow the NACHI COE are currently insurable... generally speaking. The current COE is comprehensive enough to get a quality home inspection, yet not too comprehensive that adds a higher degree of exposure for the inspector.

Debate away, and come up with a proposel. Submit it to me, and I will put it in front of the committee...


--
Joe Farsetta

Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."