Hey everybody.
I did an inspection last week and found a 20a breaker that goes to god knows what since it wasn’t labeled. It also was double tapped to feed a 2 amp motor for an awning. I called it out and now the agent called me back and said that he talked to the company and that they said they do it that way all the time. I told him that it was wrong and that they need to have a licensed electrician fix it or give it the OK. I am just looking for info in this and how best to handle it. If anybody has a code it would be great. By the way he said that he would have the awning company call me they haven’t yet (shocking).
Thanks
Mark
I sorta thought the word was out now that there are several brands of breakers, particularly in the 15 and 20 amp sizes, that can be compliantly double-tapped. What brand and model are we dealing with here?
Here is a pic it was a 20a breaker the one in the middle tell me what you think
Thanks
This is a type that accepts 2 wires:
Am I seeing two wires on that breaker or not? :???:
I think that’s a Siemens breaker. I don’t know crap about them. Maybe someone else does?
Its hard to tell in the pic but there is another wire directly under the top one
If a breaker is not equipped with receiving hardware like this Square-D breaker…(See the two open slots?)
http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/elect/panel/breaker/elcbi28a.jpg
Then you’ve got a double tap that needs to be separated. I stopped calling out the low voltage wiring such as doorbell transformers because every panel I run into have these double tapped.
Larry’s right on with his pic.
If the breaker in question is rated for 2 wires, it’s tapped incorrectly anyway.
Wires should be side by side under the terminal, not on top of each other.
The flared ends of the terminal are designed to hold the wires individually.
I believe some Square D and Cutler Hammer breakers are rated for this???
Can’t tell what this one is.
Funny that the agent thinks it’s ok cause the “awning guy” says so. :roll:
You were right for calling it out, even if it was rated for the double tap.
Those Siemens Q series breakers have a captured square washer, with a wire niche on each side of the screw. I’ve never been able to find anything official from Siemens, or on the breaker, that actually confirms you can double tap a QP breaker. I know the ITE’s that proceeded them, you couldn’t, but they had a slightly different terminal design. I almost never run across Siemens resi equipment in my area, so I never puzzled on it before. Siemens is mostly heavy industrial stuff.
I just talked to the buyers in this case and told them to have the owner get it inspected and certified by an electrician then I further told him that because the awning company says its OK to have them pay for the electrician. The awning company says it is their standard operation procedure. Can you believe that every house they put an awning on they do this :shock: </IMG>
I am only aware of (2) models that activly allow multiple conductors at this time…Square D QO and Cutler Hammer CH models…
It will say it right on the side of the breaker if it allows this application.
Are those two different sized conductors?
no the conductors are the same size
I read several times on this site that some Cutler Hammer breakers are rated for two conductors. I poked around on their website, but I did not find a definitive answer. Does anybody know which, if any, model Cutler Hammer breakers are rated for 2 wires? Could you post a link, or better yet paste it into a post? Thanks.
I believe you are referring to the twin breaker…
http://www.relectric.com/imagesV2/products/images/ch_brtwina.jpg
You are correct BUT…The NEC clearly states that the breaker MUST be labeled to accept double taps and unfortunately , that is often on the side of the breakers. SQ-D QO are normally labeled for double taps and you can actually see the indentations in the clamp plates for that. Not as nice looking but entirely compliant is one hot wire pigtail to a wirenut that then is connected to the two wire. What you have to make sure of its that those hots use the same neutral! I was an electrician for many years and that is something the AHJs look for. Most Siemens are NOT labeled for double tapping as their lug is a single screw hold down whereas the SQ-D QO use two plates to compress the wire in the lug.
Why would the two hots need to have the same neutral if you’re pigtailing them together?
1 Like
I doubt Mark will see this 17 years after his post.
2 Likes
Hell, I haven’t seen Mark post anywhere in many years.
I’ve often wondered if he’s still around at all?