Yes, insulation. But also look at the overall picture. How much would it cost to insulate walls and flat roofs? What would the cost saving be and how long would the payback come after upfront paying for the update?
Modern Heaters and HI SEER HVAC equipment does the same thing.
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I agree, but I feel like once again… we are straying into crazy depth. This post is about what its about. Nothing more and nothing less. This is a quick post on the internet. Not an entire department of energy course.
THE OVERALL PICTURE is not what this post is about. In order to get THE OVERALL PICTURE you first need to look at each component of the overall picture. This post is about ONLY ONE of those components. If it was about the entire picture it would be hundreds of pages long. And it wouldn’t be free lol
Good luck with all you endeavors.
Same to you.
I would suggest, that if this information/technique is for ‘very beginners’, it is a bit of a double-edged sword. When the client turns back to the (very beginner) and says, “What exactly does this mean, and does it mean there are issue with the insulation?”. I believe the response would be something along the lines of, “Uhhhhhhhhhhh…”. Someone with the background of an insulation-smart person may be able to give some sort of logical response. A beginner would likely spout uneducated assumptions, just to say something, possibly getting themself into a credibility issue with the client/agent. Information without knowledge of what the implications of that information is… is probably better left unsaid.
That is a great point. I took for granted what the baseline knowledge is. I had planned on editing the post to include all the answers to the questions I received. I just haven’t had the time yet.
This is a good source for the principal behind this info. He explains the thought process in a much better way than me. I have been doing it so long that I typically don’t do the extra specific math when it comes to the attic space because I also measure the insulation depth.
I also believe that insulation.org has the charts up that show the temperature differences and what they should be for reference material. Which if you are brand spanking new and can’t answer questions thrown at you with relative ease you should definitely use them.
Or don’t do this at all without some baseline energy/insulation knowledge.
You are not doing newbie inspectors, or anyone in the insulation industry, any favors with your original post. As written it is factually incorrect. Bert already identified the variations that make your premise somewhat absurd. You are on the right track… but some more knowledge would be useful.
Doubling, or tripling, down on education might be in order, instead of doubling down on explanations.
It seems to me that the way you were taught the use of a digital thermometer is, imo, more of a sales gimmick to upsell additional insulation. That often is a positive building improvement.
Kevin Woods is back!!!
“It seems to me that the way you were taught the use of a digital thermometer is, imo, more of a sales gimmick to upsell additional insulation.”
That seems like a good possibility at this point lol
If I’m the only one that sees the validity in this and the charts and videos I later copied… then that’s a pretty big red flag to me. I trust that if I am in a forum with all of these educated people and they all have a problem with what I am saying then I am most likely the problem.
I would take the post down to avoid confusing anyone, but I don’t know how.
I live in Alaska and the majority of attic spaces are under-insulated or significantly under-insulated. I have no trouble or hesitation to write them up as deficient because of a lack of insulation. I go as far as putting it under a “major” (I don’t categorize anything as major or minor in my reports) defect because of the annual financial energy losses the buyer could expect.
I also use a tape measure and measure the thickness in various locations like @bhull1 mentioned. As far as “code,” I think insulation “code” only refers to new builds but in general insulation thickness is recommended by the department of energy. Alaska is recommended to have an attic R-value of 49 and I write that up every time I see it as deficient.
This is how I operate though.
I had them increase my cellulose attic insulation to R-60 here in N. MI and foamed the walls and insulated the basement before I finished it. I am happy to have the small heat bills compared to others around here. The cost has already paid for itself in 5 years or so. Of course my nat. gas furnace is only 54 or 56,000 btu output. And, I have a gas water heater, free standing direct vent gas fireplace and gas range, too.
The process of learning is perhaps more important than the end result, because there is no end. Insulation is an important, and often overlooked, building component, so your effort to inform your clients is admirable.
The temperature reading in the attic, which I believe you stated that the top of the insulation? will give an indication of whether there is sufficient R value or not. - Well here is an example - What if there is an open chase from the building interior to the attic space? In the winter, with typical stack effects, R-30. Additionally what if there is no attic venting? (Happens here in the dry SW)
Like previously mentioned a thermal imager (not thermometer) with sufficient interior to exterior temperature differential is excellent for pointing out insulation deficiencies, except for adequacy of insulation thickness which can be hit or miss. Just looking at it is more useful, easily measured like Jacob wrote, and with time you can estimate the thickness
As Larry and Jacob wrote, you really can’t go wrong (in most of the US) with recommending more insulation.
Please leave the post up for others. Thank you and all the best!
Merrick,
I think if you had stated that the purpose was to demonstrate the presence or lack of insulation instead of it’s adequacy you might have been on more solid ground. I have used the infrared thermometer on occasion to show realtors and clients where I found missing or disturbed insulation in the attic myself, but it’s only going to be effective if there is a substantial temperature difference between the attic and interior. Plus, trying to determine the adequacy of insulation is making a huge blanket statement (see earlier comments about open chases and so forth) and strays way too far into the “technically exhaustive” realm where even the most experienced Inspectors don’t want to tread.
Especially for newbie Inspectors, stick with the SOP. It is not just there to set a minimum standard for the industry, it is there to protect you. If insulation is missing, recommend repair by a professional insulation contractor. Here in NC that would be a required Summary item in our reports. If you see or suspect low insulation levels recommend further investigation by a professional insulation contractor for an estimated cost to upgrade to current standards for energy conservation and comfort.
Don’t feed the lawyers.