Expert opinion needed- Urgent

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1

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
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I need an expert opinion on this. Would you call this out in need of repair to a plumber? I did, and am being challenged on it by another inspector that calls my finding reckless.


http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/i0000007.jpg

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Inspection Nirvana!

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2

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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John,


That pipe looks pretty corroded to me, is the other inspector blind? Sometimes I just don't believe in pure stupidity, then someone comes along and proves me wrong. ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

What the HE** where they thinking!

Joe Myers

3

Originally Posted By: jpope
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John,


I think the discoloration alone warrants a better look. The fact that this appears to be in an attic is another reason not to simply "monitor" its condition.

I think you're pretty safe here. Have the other inspector put his "seal of approval" on the pipes for the client. ![icon_confused.gif](upload://qv5zppiN69qCk2Y6JzaFYhrff8S.gif)

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

4

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
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I called him up. He says it plumbers flux. If it is, why do they make that stuff look like electrolysis?

–
Inspection Nirvana!


We're NACHI. Get over it.
5

Originally Posted By: dvalley
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John,


I'm not an expert plumber, but I'll jump in.

That pipe looks pretty damn crusted to me. Did you pull the insulation off the top of these pipes?
In some cases where the pipe is visible and exposed in the attic, green spots usually develop that eventually turn into pinholes and slowly develop leaks.

Plumbers flux does not crust that thick, unless of course they stuck that whole pipe into the flux!

I'd call it out. Good eye.

![](upload://33n8SNfimqvku1wHW5ezHh3hBaz.gif)

--
David Valley
MAB Member

Massachusetts Certified Home Inspections
http://www.masscertified.com

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."

6

Originally Posted By: jpope
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Quote:
He says it plumbers flux


If it is, it's wrong. All of the flux is supposed to be removed. Excessive flux can (over time) result in pinholes.

Generally we'll see some residual flux in areas that aren't easily accessible. This case would be considered excessive at best.

I would have made the same call.

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
7

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
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I’m feeling a little better about this guys. Thanks. Just got off the phone with my client and explained to him that I would prefer to err on the side of caution. I offered to pay for the plumbers trip if there were no issues that needed his attention but the washer/laundry valves were bad so I’m sure the plumber will have something to do.


I especially feel bettter about the flux part now.

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Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.

8

Originally Posted By: ekartal
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Good solution John. I didn’t think there was a problem with electrolysis since I believe that would require dissimalar metal contact. Doesn’t look like it in photo.


Erol Kartal
ProInspect

9

Originally Posted By: dbowers
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Nobody has mentioned the biggest problem - what the squat does another HI have to do with your inspection. In my area many realestators have the phone numbers handy of other HI’s or tradesmen that they call to try and downplay your findings to discredit you with your client. So the main thing is (1) who called the other HI and why? He sounds like a kissa$$.


Dan Bowers

10

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
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Erol,


Does flux come green like that or is that green powdery substance a result of flux being left in place and something else is happening there?

I'm not being a smart@ss this time ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif), I really do not know!

Jeff seemed to mention that flux left on the pipes is bad news. I tend to agree.

Here's what I said about the pipes in the report:

Copper pipes in attic display evidence of corrosive activity, this is suggested by the presence of green powdery substance on the pipes in various locations in the attic (pictures 2 -4).

I recommend that you consult with a licensed, qualified, professional plumber to determine the best method for repair, estimate cost and perform the repairs.

In hindsight I probably would have worded it with "to evaluate further" at the tail end of it instead of "to perform the repairs" but I figure that if the plumber determines that the best method for repair is no repair, then at least he's made the call.

I'm beginning to think that the repair might be to clean the pipes. I'm okay with that because I'm thinking that if they were left as is, eventually it would become a problem or leak.

--
Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.

11

Originally Posted By: rbracklow
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You know John, I took a real close look at the photo, and two things came to mind - now the copper pipes (the corroded one is copper is it not?) are covered, or have laying on top the galvanized HVAC ductwork. Now I’m wondering, 1) since the green is on the top pipe between the joints (maximum resistance) which could cause galvanic action, or 2) did he use Acid Core solder which would certainly cause the discoloration. ??


My two cents worth!!

Ron.

12

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
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Dan,


I just checked to see if this guy is a member or not. He's not, so since you are speaking a language I can understand, here's the scoop.

The house was a bank foreclosure, it inspected real good for the most part. When I called to talk to this other inspector about his comments, I did ask him why he was involved. He inspects for this bank (the seller)to tell them what they need to fix up on the property to get them into shape for sale. This may explain his bad mouthing behavior and defensive posture. I told him I didn't appreciate him telling anyone that my call was reckless. I told him even if he thought it was a bad call that he should have handled it differently. He did tell me that he consulted with not one, but two plumbers that said this was nothing to worry about. I'm like, dude! You derferred to the experts!!! That's all I'm doing!

I'm beginning to think that if someone calls something out on one of his deals that he takes it personal.

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Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.

13

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
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Ron,


I don't know what the plumber used. That's drywall under the pipes the insulation was pushed away. I found it that way. I don't go digging around in insulation. Damn, I wish they would have covered that sh!t back up.

--
Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.

14

Originally Posted By: rbracklow
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Well John, you did a great job discovering that discrepancy, and suppose that you hadn’t and the corrosion caused the pipes to leak, and since the property was empty, which caused the ceiling to come down, if not reported, guess who they would come after.


Good call!! ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

Ron.

15

Originally Posted By: ekartal
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John,


I agree 100% there's some form of corrosion. I stated that I didn't think it was from dissimilar metal contact. ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)

Erol Kartal

16

Originally Posted By: jpeck
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I think Jeff Pope is on the right track.


Looks like excess flux was not rinsed off, which is acidic and can cause long term deterioration.

All flux should be rinsed off (all joints should be wiped after soldering). That alone is a good enough call to have the plumber address any, if any, long term corrosive damage to the pipes.

Even if the plumber says "It's no problem.", when (if) it does leak, you client will remember "Oh, yeah, that's what my inspector was referring to when he pointed that out."

By the way, that looks like a repair. The insulation is all pulled back and the two pipes are contorted with elbows. This is how plumbers make repairs. Cut the pipe, install two elbows facing up, cut a length of pipe to go between the two elbows, install two more elbows on that short length of pipe, then cut two very short pieces of pipe, dis-assemble everything, emery paper it all, flux it all, re-assemble, solder it all, the get-heck-out-of-that-hot-attic.

Oh, DANG! I forgot to wipe the joints clean when I was done! Who will ever know?

Shoulda moved that insulation back, that would have at least hidden it. Dang, am I stupid.

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

17

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
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Jerry,


It's gotta be some kind of repair. Plumbers lay pipe straight most the time don't they?

Looks like something was crossed and they needed it to go the other way.

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Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.

18

Originally Posted By: jpeck
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John,


You probably also noticed that, in addition to all the elbows. the pipes criss-cross there.

Here is my guess as to what happened and what the "fix" was.

Some plumber connected the bathrooms beyond that point with the hot and cold reversed (standing on the wrong side of the wall will do that). Later, when that was discovered, the plumber figured it was easier to go into the attic and swap the lines you see in your photo, than to remove drywall, tile, whatever, to swap the individual lines. Single handle faucets, no problem, but all those two handle faucets, like spa tubs and fancy showers, that would be a pain.

Brilliant flash! Swap the lines in the attic. That was probably the reason for the repair. My previous post was probably why it was left the way it is now. "I'm getting out of this friggin hot attic as soooon asssss IIII ffinish soldering thiiiisss last jointtttttt. Whew, I'mmmmmmm outta here."

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

19

Originally Posted By: jrabanus
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John,


You definately made the right call. Plumbing issues in the attic can cause far worse damage than ones in a basement. I really did not like the fact that the pipes were not covered with insulation.

Josh Rabanus
Precision Inspections

20

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
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In my inspection agreement, I reserve the right to modify my report up to 48 hours after the time it is first delivered. Based everyones input, I modified the statement slightly:


Copper pipes in attic display evidence of corrosive activity, this is evidenced by the presence of a green powdery substance (suggestive of electrolysis) on the pipes in various locations in the attic (pictures 2 -4). This observation is consistent with conditions due to improper, hastily done or incomplete plumbing repairs. Plumbing joints should have been clean of flux and wiped down completely when the repair was made. Failure to completely remove flux may result in slow corrosion, that, if not corrected, may lead to plumbing leaks.

I recommend that you consult with a licensed, qualified, professional plumber to evaluate further, determine the best method for repair, estimate cost and perform any necessary repair.

--
Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.