No that I couldn’t tell you.
If you get into that then you arew no longer a visual inspector.
The surertest will tell you things you may not really want to know.
My 15 year old Ecos tester will find a bootleg ground, I have to believe that new Sure Test would. BTW this is exactly how you can get the deadly outlet that tests perfectly with the 3 light tester. Imagine if the bootleg “ground” was connected to the hot due to a reversal up stream.
Now the can of your refrigerator is hot. Grab that with wet feet.
Dammit…sure test in my future…that is good news bad news eh?
Listen to Jeff, he started around the same time I did , but he has had the fortitude, to learn far beyond the normal HI.
I wish I could keep up with him, but it has not been possible.
Jeff, as far as HI’s go you are my guiding light:cool:
Hey Jeff,
Do you do WDIIR inspections?
I sold a treatment this afternoon for $7800.00 and I get 10%. Hey, every little bit helps.
I’m just a simple HI Todd. No frills, no whistles 
The reading the tester uses is less than one ohm and more than about .05 ohm. (25 feet of #12 copper). If it is less than that you get the false ground indication.
I removed the receptacle because there were two distribution panels in this home. One had 2-wire no grounding conductors and the other had 2-wire with grounding conductors. Some circuits were labeled but was difficult tracing these circuits individually so the next best way at that time was to remove the receptacle. No big deal!! Need a Sure-test, gotta have one!
Where that gets REALLY unsafe (read: lethal) is when someone upstream of that decides (or thoughtlessly “decides”) to switch the hot and neutrals around. BAM… instant hot metal box, screw, and plugged in chassis of a grounded device connected to that receptical.
Also in that situation if the neutral becomes compromised somewhere along the circuit it will cause the grounding pin on the receptacles to become hot.
The suretest uses a resistance measurement to reveal a bootleg ground, won’t it lie on a receptacle located very close to the panel?
Steven, kudos to you for removing that receptacle and exposing this serious hazard, I have found them like that in homes that were inspected and not caught, leaving me to explain to the buyer how they got screwed.
As with any instrument, learning to interpret the readings is an important factor. The SureTest will give a “false ground” indication" when the resistance between the grounded conductor and the grounding conductor is too low. This may occur at close proximity to the service equipment or where a bootleg ground is present.
Is it lying? No, it’s simply giving a reading. It’s up to the HI to try and determine if the reading is actually a problem. If it is questionable, it should be deferred.
Great stuff by Jeff…Lets BUMP this puppy
I guess I would have to disagree with you there Jeff, if the instrument displays a false ground reading in close proximity to the panel when there is no false ground present, I would call that lying :mrgreen:
What about the HI who reports it as a false ground and causes additional expense of an electrician when one was not needed?
How about the HI that does not call it out and does not have a licensed and insured electrician evaluate it (and assume the liability) and gets wacked?
HIs are like general practicioners. Electricians are specialists.
:mrgreen:
Remember we are only dealing with three conductors here
A lot different than checking computer network cabling that is wired by the same “professional”
PULL THE COVER OFF AND LOOK AT IT
You pulled the cover off the electrical panel didn’t you?? What is a little piece of plastic and one screw?
rlb
Consider a case where some of the receptacles are switched from a 3 or 4 gang wall switch box with more than one hot feed to the box. You have 3-wire plus ground cables present, different neutral circuits etc.
It is not just simply 3 wires sometimes, if you do not remove the outlet and look at the splices that may be behind it you could miss a lot.
If you are going to remove cover plates you should remember that you are still only seeing a small portion of the picture. House can have many junction boxes and splices.
Another note:
Installing an AFCI on a circuit that operates and tests ok can be a learning experience when it trips due to a shared neutral somewhere.
Bruce
Point well taken
What seems to be basic knowledge to many is advanced to many others.
It is hard to inspect something that one does not understand. Too bad homes are not required to have on file up to date one line electrical diagrams
rlb
As Bruce stated, that may not give you the answer you’re looking for. As in the case where the homeowner creates the “bootleg” at an attic junction box rather than the receptacle itself - which is quite often the case in older, two-wire systems, where NM is tied in for additional circuits.
We need to learn to interpret our instruments based on their indicators as well as other conditions present in the home.
Jeff
Understand about the J box in the attic “converting” two wire to three wire. Wonder how far away the box could be so that the suretest would not see it?
rlb
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As a general rule, the SureTest will indicate a “false ground” if there is a connection between the neutral and ground within about 15 feet (conductor length) of the receptacle being tested.
Obviously, there are many variables that can come into play, so it’s important to “get a feel” for your tester before writing up every false-ground indication.
It becomes more apparent in cases such as condos, where they have interior distribution (sub) panels, as these require isolated neutrals. A false ground indication in this case would almost certainly indicate a wiring error, whether it’s a bootleg ground, or neutrals bonded/grounded to the distribution panel.
In any event, we shouldn’t arbitrarily “flag” every false-ground indication.