Fogged window, then not fogged

jdegiorgio · February 18, 2006, 5:20pm

Greetings, I did an inspection and checked the windows,two of them were heavily condensated, lots of moisture between the glass. Upon further inspection I noticed that the other windows had moisture between the glass. To make sure I even ran my finger on the glass surface to make sure that it was between.
I turned in my report as 4 fogged windows.I get called back because three of the windows did not have any moisture showing.I know what I saw the first time, but then re checking it was gone…Need to know whats going on
Thanks
Joe DeGiorgio
Compass Property Inspection
678-859-2992:neutral:
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gbeaumont · February 18, 2006, 5:46pm

Joe, the widows will show different ammounts of fogging dependent on temperature and RH differences inside and out, it is not unusual to see this specially as the windows heat up during the day.

I bet though that if you look carefully at the bottom seal that you can still see signs of moisture having been present.

Regards

Gerry

jdegiorgio · February 18, 2006, 5:48pm

Gary, send me your number and I will call you,
Thanks,
Joe

dvalley · February 18, 2006, 6:12pm

Gary who?

tallen · February 18, 2006, 6:14pm

Did you take pictures of the windows in question?

jdegiorgio · February 18, 2006, 6:30pm

Yes I did, but you cannot see as well as when you just looked at it

tallen · February 18, 2006, 6:37pm

Ya, it’s hard to take good pics of moisture inbetween panes, but it sometimes helps with callbacks.

dedwards · February 18, 2006, 6:42pm

Try this next time:
www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1737

tallen · February 18, 2006, 6:44pm

I like it!

jdegiorgio · February 18, 2006, 6:49pm

I am going to go back and try this…I will let you know what happens.
Thanks,
Joe

dedwards · February 18, 2006, 6:59pm

You are welcome. Hope this helps. I usually wrap the ice in a piece of cloth or paper towel. I carry a couple of microfiber towels with me to mop up behind myself if I “discover” a leak or create one of my own. You can buy a bundle of 8 at Wally World for about $4. They are great cause they hold about a quart of water before you have to wring it out. Toss them in the laundry and viola like new. Great for drying up to after you’ve had your hands in someone’s funky, nasty mess during inspections.

scosta · February 18, 2006, 10:06pm

Not sure I would try it, but I read somewhere another method of testing if the seal is broken is to press on the outside and inside of the glass and if the panes touch, the seal is broke. Anyone else hear or read of this method?
Steve

dedwards · February 18, 2006, 10:18pm

NOt me. If its not when you start it might be when you finish.

dvalley · February 18, 2006, 10:43pm

I honestly don’t think you are going to get the two panes to touch each other. Maybe they’ll touch when your hand finally goes through the window.

tallen · February 18, 2006, 11:22pm

:shock::shock:

I don’t think I would try that.:shock::shock:

Jay_Moge · February 19, 2006, 1:41am

Steve, i’m with them, i wouldn’t try it. one thing is you could break it, because depending on the age of the window and thickness of each glass, it could break like…well …glass actualy. the other thing is, weather the seal is good or not you could get the 2 to touch depending on how big each is, how thick, old, and how far apart. sounds like who ever told you that may have a method for one situation, but not enough to call it a “trick” for all thermal panes.

scosta · February 19, 2006, 4:44am

Im with ya, I dont know where I think I read that, but it doesnt seem like a good idea. I figured I would ask in case anyone else heard or has tried it.

rray · February 19, 2006, 9:30am

Educate:

[FONT=Times New Roman]Multi-pane windows[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]Multi-pane windows reduce street noise and improve heating and cooling efficiency. Since the space between the panes is sealed at the factory, multi-pane windows typically cannot be repaired and have to be replaced. Depending on the type of construction and the type of exterior siding, window replacement can be expensive. If a seal fails, air from the environment may enter the formerly sealed space, which may cause condensation or fogging in the window. Most multi-pane window failures in San Diego County occur on the south and west sides of the house due to the amount of sunshine we get. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman]It is not always possible to detect failed seals in multi-pane windows because evidence of the failure may not be visible, particularly during dry weather, so we cannot ensure that each and every seal on each and every window is intact at the time of the inspection. Dirty windows also make it difficult to properly examine multi-pane windows. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman]If windows are dirty, they should be cleaned, both inside and outside. Any apparent residue left on the window will usually be within the sealed space and typically indicates that the window seal has failed.[/FONT]

If you can’t determine whether or not the seal is broken, hold an ice cube against the glass for about a minute. If the seal is broken, moisture between the two glass panes will condense on the inside of the glass.

[FONT=Times New Roman]**Due to the expense involved in replacing multi-pane windows, recommend having all multi-pane ****doors and windows cleaned, inside and outside, before close of escrow. **[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman]**Recommend monitoring windows during cold or wet weather; any condensation that cannot be wiped away on the interior or exterior ****of the window is in the space between the panes, and the window will probably need to be replaced. **[/FONT]

teamplayer · February 21, 2006, 7:56pm

Very common, it can work in reverse of your situation as well. It might not be showing and then it is when the buyer moves in. Then they want to know why you missed it. Here is my reporting language for insulated windows that goes in after my standard descriptive section of the report regarding the windows.

“Defective seals in insulated glass are not always visible. Environmental conditions such as humidity, temperature, and time of day will affect visible indications of defective seals. Therefore any defective seals listed are only those that were visible and significantly affecting the appearance of the window at the time of inspection and not a guaranty that no other windows have defective seals.”

rray · February 21, 2006, 9:22pm

I liked that until I got to the “and significantly affecting the appearance of the window at the time of inspection.” That I didn’t like. If a defective seal is “visible” or noticeable or detectable, it will, at some point, probably the day after they move in, “significantly affect the appearance of the window.” So why not just note it now and save the phone call from the buyers when they move in by deleting that phrase?