Gas and Copper

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#1

Originally Posted By: jdavidson
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Is it OK to have copper gas lines? We usally see black iorn but sometimes we see copper. We wrote it up once and the customer got someone who said it was OK. Thoughts?

#2

Originally Posted By: jpope
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Typically, copper gas lines are not a problem.


http://fuelgas.copper.org/RG-Installing.html
http://www.lni.wa.gov/forms/pdf/622046a0.pdf

I hope these can help.

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

#3

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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John,


Typically around our area they use copper when it is LP gas. I am not sure what the logic is, I would have to assume that it is easier to install.

Who told you that you could not use copper?

Joe Myers

#4

Originally Posted By: arosenbaum
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Copper (flexible copper) is used for gas lines around here all the time…


If you see black iron used for WATER LINES, then that is a BIG ![](upload://7GiJHa9oLOP2YGWNNJqyitFikFi.gif), because it can cause lead poisoning....

If you see a bad kink in a copper gas line, then use your sniffer and see if there is a leak.... that flexible copper can kink kind of easily if not unrolled properly during installation.....

#5

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Just make sure that the copper gas lines are painted yellow. Could be a tough day if the homeowner decided to cut into the “plumbing” line to add a fixture…KAPOW eusa_pray.gif


Blaine

#6

Originally Posted By: jdavidson
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Thanks for the help.

–
John Davidson


Heads Up Home Inspections


Morton, IL

#7

Originally Posted By: nlewis
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Aaron,


How do you get lead poisoning from black iron water lines. Is there some residual lead left over from manufacture or what? Thanks

#8

Originally Posted By: jpope
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icon_smile.gif

–
Jeff Pope


JPI Home Inspection Service


“At JPI, we’ll help you look better”


(661) 212-0738

#9

Originally Posted By: nlewis
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Jeff,


I think I'm confused. How is a threaded black iron pipe "indicative" of lead piping. It is either lead or not. And why does it have to be extreme to scratch the surface of the pipe. Every lead pipe I've seen can be scratched to get to the shiny stuff uder the oxidized surface, whether it is a drain line or water supply line.

#10

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Now I’m confused (which is usually normal). I have seen lead supply entrances in several homes over the years. Each time they were connected to galvanized plumbing lines, not black iron. All of these homes were built between the early 1900’s and late 1940’s. I have never seen black iron piping used for anything except gas lines or fire sprinkler systems. icon_confused.gif


Blaine

#11

Originally Posted By: jpope
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Neal,


I try and remain somewhat general in most of my responses, however, I never did mention "threaded" black piping although that may be irrelevant.

On the West Coast between 1970 and 1985 lead based material and lead pipe was commonly used in plumbing installations. If "lead pipe" was used, (MHO) this is an "extreme" case - this is "obvious" and "hazardous."

In some installations, lead solder or lead flux was used. Again, in my humble opinion, this is "less extreme" as it doesn't pose an "immediate" risk to the user and it is much more difficult to spot.

Even less obvious, more common, but fairly "extreme," is lead based galvanized pipe. This tends to pose a hazard in standing water where the lead can leach from the pipe into the water.

A standard recommendation (when a home has been built in that time frame and the original galv pipes are in use) is not to use hot tap water for cooking or for a baby's formula and to have the water checked for levels of lead.

I have never seen lead used in waste lines. I don't see how that could pose any kind of danger to anyone so I'm not sure if I'd make an issue of that. ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

#12

Originally Posted By: nlewis
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Jeff,


Are you sure it was lead piping that was used up until 1985? Ive never seen lead pipe for drain or waste used past the 1930's.

Can you describe what "lead-based galvanized" piping looks like. I've never seen this either. It might just be a West Coast thing.

Thanks,

Neal

#13

Originally Posted By: jpope
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seen lead piping used for waste lines. It may be true that at one time it was common, but I haven’t ever come across it.


I mis-spoke (or mis-spelled). I should have said lead "containing" galv pipe. It is essentially your typical galvanized pipe with a high lead content.

Prior to the Safe Drinking Water Act, galvanized pipe, solder and flux contained high levels of lead. Since, the use of lead "containing" solder and/or flux is no longer allowed for pluming.

The following is a quote from an article on the net ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)

"The sources of lead in our drinking water is predominantly from corrosion and erosion of the pipes, fittings, and faucets within the house, and of the service pipe line from the street main to the house. The lakes and wells, which supply water systems, are generally lead free. The street main pipes are generally iron, transite and other non-lead products but past use of lead joint packings allow for a source of lead problems."

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

#14

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Jeff,


Where does the lead in galvanized pipe come from? It is essentially iron pipe put through a galvanizing process, which as far as I can find, contains no lead. I just looked through several of my HI books, and none mention galv. pipe as a source of lead. They only list the lead supply entrance (highly maleable) and lead flux in copper soldered pipes. I gotsta know dis, cause I gotta wholelotta galvanized pipe in the older homes round here. Or, maybe its just a California thang. That would explain much. ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)

Blaine

#15

Originally Posted By: jpope
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a source for lead.


Gimme a couple hours. . . I'll find it ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif) I knew I should have stayed in bed today.

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

#16

Originally Posted By: nlewis
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Blaine,


Ditto what you said.
My house has lots of galvanized water lines, and also lead drain lines, so I would like to find out about the "lead-based galvanized piping". Anyway, I've never heard of lead in a galvanized ( or iron) water line. Lead is left in things like brass fixtures and well pumps from the manufacture process, so you never know.

#17

Originally Posted By: jpope
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Further inquiry revealed that "hot dipped" galvanized products contain up to .5% lead (5000 ppm).

Thanks guys, I learned a little today too ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

#18

Originally Posted By: nlewis
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Jeff,


Well that may be true in Queensland, Australia but I don't know 'bout in the USA.... ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)

I learned something today, too. Thanks

#19

Originally Posted By: jpope
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What was the original question eusa_think.gif ?

–
Jeff Pope


JPI Home Inspection Service


“At JPI, we’ll help you look better”


(661) 212-0738

#20

Originally Posted By: arosenbaum
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


bwiley wrote:
Now I'm confused (which is usually normal). I have seen lead supply entrances in several homes over the years. Each time they were connected to galvanized plumbing lines, not black iron. All of these homes were built between the early 1900's and late 1940's. I have never seen black iron piping used for anything except gas lines or fire sprinkler systems. ![icon_confused.gif](upload://qv5zppiN69qCk2Y6JzaFYhrff8S.gif)

Blaine


That is correct...."Black iron" or the black piping that is used for gas should NEVER be used for water supply... that is a big safety issue. Back in the day, they used galvanized piping (lead or steel), but NOT the black iron ..... you can usually tell a black line from a grey line (which is the color of the galvanized .... a black iron pipe that is used for gas is BLACK and you'll see it...

Its VERY RARE that you'd see a black pipe used for water lines....VERY RARE