GFCI

Originally Posted By: rsmith6
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



This has probably been discussed before but I need a refresher! Does anyone see a problem with using a GFCI for a washing machine, sump pump, etc.? (with a dedicated circuit to the washer)


Originally Posted By: Mark Dudley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



I don’t think there’s a restriction on where you can use a GFCI, except in a bedroom, which needs an AFCI. Generally you don’t want to put something on a GCFI that you wouldn’t want accidentally tripping off when you were away, such as a refrigerator circuit, or sump pump.



http://www.thehomeforums.com/

Originally Posted By: whandley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



I’ve not encounter any complaints at GFCI protected sump pumps. I do hear of GFCI protected laundry equipment tripping frequently. I’m assuming the load of 120v washer and or dryer is to much for the sensitive GFCI outlet. icon_idea.gif


Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



If your washer trips the GFCI it is broke. If your washer is in an unfinished garage or basement it has to be GFCI in most jurisdictions.


Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Will,


If your dryer trips the GFCI you may have bigger problems or a very weird dryer. I've seen very few 120V dryers and never saw a 230 GFCI.


--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky

www.b4uclose.com

Originally Posted By: Mark Dudley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Refrigerators and washers are notorious for tripping GFCI’s… I think it’s something to do with the motor. Doesn’t mean it’s broke, but the fact that it is common is why GFCI’s are not recommended for use on refrigerators.



http://www.thehomeforums.com/

Originally Posted By: whandley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Ok Greg; How about this. Washer and gas fired 120v dryer are connected to (1) 120v GFCI protected outlet in a finished garage. If they’re operating both appliances and the GFCI trips intermittently, irrespective of the load, I’m to assume the GFCI is broken?


Originally Posted By: whandley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Erby; Remember that a gas fired clothes dryer needs a 120v power supply to turn the drum. I was on a job today in La Mesa, CA… Built in 1956, Laundry area in garage, (1) 120v outlet suppling the washing machine and gas fired 120v clothes dryer. There was no GFCI outlet


coverage present, and I believe that to be correct for this particular


installation in a finished garage. icon_idea.gif


Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Ok, I was a dumbass and forgot that.


(pulling foot out)


--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky

www.b4uclose.com

Originally Posted By: wdecker
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



I recommend that all water appliances (washer, dishwasher, sump pump, etc) be connected to a GFCI. Never had any problems with a washer tripping it.


Refrigerators trip GFCIs because they usually have a capacitor circuit that is used to produce an initial starting surge for the compressor motor (remember that a fridge is nothing more than a small A/C unit). This circuit takes in more current than it puts out for a small while, which is what a GFCI is looking for, so it trips.


--
Will Decker
Decker Home Services
Skokie, IL 60076
wjd@DeckerHomeServices.com

Originally Posted By: dspencer
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Refridgerator should not to be on a GFCI circuit and should be a dedicated circuit.


Originally Posted By: apightling
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



You’re right. The GFCI constantly monitors electricity flowing in a circuit, to sense any unbalance of current. If the current flowing through the circuit differs by a small amount from that returning, the GFCI quickly switches off power to that circuit.


I think the phase differential when the motor starts is being interpreted by the GFCI as a fault. . . . that's the motor start cap in the fridge effect.

GFCI protection is required for most outdoor receptacles, bathroom receptacle circuits, garage wall outlets, kitchen receptacles, and all receptacles in crawl spaces and unfinished basements. I would treat the laundry the same as the kitchen even though it is not specifically designated by NEC for GFCI outlets.

This doesn't get around the fact that your GFCI faults. First I would check to determine if an actual fault existed during any operation of the washer or dryer. If there wasn't a fault like a frayed wire touching a part of the frame when the washer goes into the spin cycle. . .etc. I would call my friendly GFCI manufacturers help line and ask if they can recommend an outlet that was more capable of handling an inductive or capacitive kick. . . . and if they have one . . . maybe a model that works on 220 for the elec dryers?

-ap


Originally Posted By: Mark Dudley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



apightling wrote:


GFCI protection is required for most outdoor receptacles, bathroom receptacle circuits, garage wall outlets, kitchen receptacles, and all receptacles in crawl spaces and unfinished basements. I would treat the laundry the same as the kitchen even though it is not specifically designated by NEC for GFCI outlets.

-ap


Outlets that serve a dedicated, not easily moved appliance (such as a dishwasher, fridge or washer) that are in a space dedicated for that appliance (such as a dishwasher, fridge or washer) and are cord and plug connected are exempt from the GFCI requirement.

Dishwashers that are hard wired also do not require a GFCI.

Crawlspaces only require them if they are at or below grade level.


--
http://www.thehomeforums.com/

Originally Posted By: wdecker
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



I disagree.


Any appliance that uses water has a connection to the water pipes and therefore, to the ground.

These appliances can cause shocks and should be GGFCI protected.

Fridges would only even be considered for GFCI is they are in an unfinished basement area or a garage. If they are just in a kitchen and more than 6' away from the sink, they wonldn't even be considered for GFCI protection. In any case, they are the exception to the GFCI rule because of their capacitance.

I regularly reccomend that disposers and dishwashers be GFCI'd. I also recommend that, if the outlet for the disposer and/or dishwasher is located under the sink, that it be in a waterproof box.

Again, I am not talking code, I am talking safety. I have seen to many kitchens where the dishwasher leaks and gets water all over the floor.


--
Will Decker
Decker Home Services
Skokie, IL 60076
wjd@DeckerHomeServices.com

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



If a fridge trips a GFCI it is broke too.


There is nothing inherent in a sealed compressor that makes it trip a GFCI. In fact a fridge is required to be GFCI in a commercial kitchen if it is cord and plug connected.


These things may develop a ground fault as they age but that is a fault, not an excuse


Originally Posted By: apightling
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Yep, I agree. If an appliance is hardwired it doesn’t use GFCI outlets. If it does use an outlet and is in the classifications I mentioned NEC says you use GFCI.


Greg, are you saying an inductive or capacitive surge (eg. motor start) cannot be detected and misinterpreted by a GFCI outlet as a fault?

-ap


Originally Posted By: wdecker
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



GFCI outlets are one thing. Hardwired appliances can be protected by GFCI breakers.



Will Decker


Decker Home Services


Skokie, IL 60076


wjd@DeckerHomeServices.com

Originally Posted By: apightling
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



There I go. . . always looking for angles . . . you could use a GFCI breaker for those appliances that are hard wired . . .


As I think about it some more. . . an exemption from a requirement for prevention of electrocution because an appliance is not easily moved doesn't make much sense to me. Sure, you wouldn't have a local GFCI outlet but the GFCI function should still be mandatory.


-ap


Originally Posted By: psmothers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Here is one for you. I have a 125 gallon salt water fish tank in my house. I do water changes about every 2 - 3 weeks where I change out about 25 gallons. The water that I mix up to put in to the tank I let cycle in a couple of ice chest for a few days to let it come to the correct temp and to get the salt contect correct. I keep a power head in each ice chest in order to circulate the water. When ever I plug a power head in to a GFCI outlet it trips it. At first I thought I had a bad power head but I have tried 3 so far and they all trip it.



Foxe Smothers


"Its not a matter of will we rebuilt it is matter of how soon..."

"A hero is no braver than an ordinary man, but he is brave five minutes longer."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Originally Posted By: wdecker
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



What is a power head?


If it is some sort of motor, it probably has a capacitance circuit in it. This will trip the GFCI because it will see, momentarily, a difference between the hot and neutral prongs.

All it takes is 1/50th of an amp current difference between ther two prongs for 1/10 of a second, I believe.


--
Will Decker
Decker Home Services
Skokie, IL 60076
wjd@DeckerHomeServices.com