Grounds and neutrals sharing bus bars

Are you sure :smiley: did you finally figure out why neutral is not supposed to ever float or be isolated in a typical residential electrical system :slight_smile:

Bonded or un-bonded…Please!

Try 8 hours in one day on this!

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Nope! Bonded is the opposite of floating, therefore: still bonded neutral. Same principle as not floating. If you say unbonded, you are saying it is floating. The point to remember is that you are trying to avoid connecting (bonding) them multiple times… but because the bonding of neutral is required in service, the neutral can never float, be isolated, or unbonded.

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That’s why we inspectors refer things to the qualified professionals that we do, sometimes.

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Qualified is often a problem :upside_down_face:

Yes, you’re correct, You do not want the EGC and the neutral to be connected together on both ends which would allow the neutral current to flow on the EGC under normal conditions.

That was answered in the 4th post in this thread!

except they aren’t isolated, I know, hard concept.

Still abit confused about GEC and its potions.

Turning to Mike.
I still have the feeling you are not clear on the differences between GEC and EGC. Will come back after.

A GEC is a single conductor that connects to the ground electrode system at any point. It is a Single Conductor, and as such you cannot CHOKE IT. So if you run it in a ferrous metal, it has to be bonded at each end to make the raceway a part of the conductor. Otherwise it can be ran in plastic or aluminum raceway, or no raceway at all providing it is protected from damage.

An EGC is always ran with its associated phase conductors.

I know NEC 690.47, especially 690.47(D) has caused a fire storm in cycle 2014. It will be repelled. Unless you are using 2014 cycle ignore it. If you are using 2014 cycle conform to get inspected, then correct after inspection. Here are two videos from Mike Holt. They are are long and very specific.

690.47 (D)
690.47 (D)

The 690.47 (D) video Mike has done something he has never done. He point blank comes out and says it is Deadly and the dumbest thing ever to come out of the NEC. John Wiley is taking a lot of heat and lost a lot of respect. If you only watch one of the videos, watch the first one 690.47 (D) It will open your eyes.

Not a hard concept at all. Simply one that is unnecessary to answer the OP. If you want to discuss electrical isolation as a circuit not connected to the ac mains that needs another thread.

You made a claim the neutrals are isolated in the sub-panel in your #4 post – they are not isolated. This was the entire point of the last 60 posts.

WAFI is back :rofl:

I made no such claim. I simply pointed out that to they are not bonded in the sub-panel. To the extent that is true they are isolated from one another at that location. Arguing nomenclature does not answer the OP’s question but merely enhances your own conceit that you have superior knowledge.

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Excuse me JP!
The fitting term is “Rat Bastard”

Come on now!
I resemble that remark…With the exception of “Mr.” Rat Bastard…:innocent:

See that the hate committee is back.

I guess, for the majority, it comes down to just knowing yes or no, and not the why. Oh well, such is life. The irony of it all, when the realtors do it, somehow it’s not okay LOL

Isolated in the context of this thread refers to not being connected to the grounds at any point except the service as long as the panel is fed with 4 wires.

I am aware, however, it is technically incorrect and most don’t understand why.