Brand new construction. This is the sub panel inside the house. Found these handle ties on the combo breakers. When I tested the combo breakers per manufacturer standards the breakers each tripped individually. I saw somewhere that it is allowed to tie Combo breakers together. I just don’t know if combo breakers can be tied together like this. Is this correct? My assumption is it is incorrect, because the breakers tripped individually, not together at the same time.
Yes, separate AFCI breakers can be tied together with approved handle ties, but only if they are specific types that do not include ground-fault (GF) detection
Key Conditions for Using Handle Ties
For a safe and code-compliant installation, the following conditions must be met:
Manufacturer Compatibility: You must use handle ties specifically approved for the breaker brand and model. For instance, Siemens and GE/ABB offer specific handle ties for their AFCI breakers.
No Ground-Fault Protection: Handle ties are generally not allowed on Dual Function (AFCI/GFCI) or standard GFCI breakers because these require an internal “common trip” mechanism to ensure both poles trip simultaneously during a fault.
Same Amperage and Type: The breakers being tied must be of the same type and amperage rating.
Proper Labeling: Siemens, for example, requires that AFCI breakers be produced after October 1, 2023, and carry a 120/240V label to be compatible with their handle ties.
When Handle Ties are Required
Handle ties are primarily used for Multi-Wire Branch Circuits (MWBC) where two “hot” wires share a single neutral wire. In these cases, the National Electrical Code (NEC) requires a means to simultaneously disconnect all ungrounded conductors for safety during maintenance.
That’s a new one on me too. Better photos would be helpful, a bit further back (with legend and breaker numbers visible) and with the panel removed for instance.
Gurgle is just as (not) reliable as Al. You may want to contact Siemens tech support:
I disagree. The handle tie on the QTA tandem breakers in the photo provides manual common switching only. It does not provide a common internal trip.
The only reason to have both breakers in the MWBC turned off simultaneously is when the circuit is being serviced. Having a common internal trip would unnecessarily cause a nuisance trip on half of the circuit.
I don’t believe these are MWBC setups. Each breaker specifies to one location - ie. dishwasher, disposal, bar sink, etc.
Why would you put handle ties on two breakers if both will not trip at the same time? This is Los Angeles btw. Not that makes any difference. Just an FYI.
I asked the question, “Can you handle tie siemens combo breaker?” and AI gave me this response.
Yes, you can use handle ties on Siemens combo (AFCI/GFCI) breakers to ensure simultaneous manual switching for multi-wire branch circuits (MWBCs). Specifically, Siemens ECQTH3P handle ties (for QP, BL, BQ frames) or BQDHT2 ties for higher-end frames are designed to join adjacent handles. However, they do not provide a common trip on all models, meaning one might trip without the other, and they are not intended for AFCI breakers sharing a neutral.
But when trip tested, the breakers did not trip simultaneously, so isn’t that an issue?
They look like MWB Circuits from the picture (one red and one black conductor). Handle ties are required to help ensure both circuits are shut off when servicing either circuit, since the neutral is shared.
Technically, it is only one circuit. But, you are correct. It is meant for manual common switching when the circuit is being serviced. Under normal conditions, there is no harm in only half of the circuit energized. Also, if both were tripping frequently, it would be difficult to diagnose which half of the circuit was problematic.
According to Siemens, they are supposed to trip simultaneously, not individually. And that’s what happened when tripped each breaker. Seems problematic to me. Guess I should go to the source and contact the manufacturer.
I don’t see an issue. The handle tie is only required for simultaneous disconnect of the two circuits sharing a neutral which is a MWBC. The handle tie is not there so that both circuits trip at the same time. I would be more concerned that the black and red conductors from each MWBC are on different legs.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? An MWBC is essentially a 240V circuit, having two conductors on different legs of a 240/120V system, is it not? Are you pointing out an inherent hazard of an MWBC?
