I think that I understand fully. I also understand both through real life experiences and through post made here on this forum that a lot of the information used by Home Inspectors are so far outdated that Noah wouldn’t use them when he built his boat.
I also understand that when a Home Inspector makes a call on something that is neither a code violation nor unsafe just because he is making the call based on wrong information given him is a class he took it hurts not only him but the organization as a whole.
Both through life experiences and post I have read on this forum there is a big misunderstanding when it comes to grounding. This misunderstanding comes from material such as Nick has asked the electricians to comment on in this thread.
In the material that Nick is asking about the comment is made in two separate places that grounding is to prevent someone from being electrocuted. Grounding will in no way stop anyone from being electrocuted. Bonding will be what protects the person from being hurt.
In the material that Nick is asking about the author makes the statement that the ground rod carries current all the way back to the utility generator. This simply is not true. There is no connection at all between the grounding electrode system at a building and the utility generator.
It is not my intent of preach code but to ensure that the material in some sort of way is at least partly correct.
One fact that the author of the material point out and I do not dispute is that a complete path from one side of the source to the other must be in tack in order for current to flow.
From the secondary of the pole transformer current can not return to the utility generator as there is no connection from the generator and the secondary of the transformer.
Any current that might flow on the grounding electrode of the building will have to return to the secondary of the transformer and can go to no other place.
Just the first few pages of what I have read lead me to believe that the original author has complied a bunch of material from several different places and from different time frames and is calling it modern material. The diagrams he uses shows this material is more than a few years old. For the most part he has done a fairly good job but the grounding parts are far from being correct. Anyone trying to use this material for grounding will end up getting someone hurt of even killed. It is old material and completely out of date.
Well Joe as a member of this forum please enlighten me. Just what do I not understand?
Please explain it to me and be sure to do it in a way that this lowly hillbilly can understand.
I don’t feel that I am wasting my time any time that I try to explain electrical theory to anyone who don’t have a full understanding.
If you think that I am wasting your time there is a simple solution, don’t read them.
Once again I ask you if you agree with the material that Nick has ask the electricians to look over?
Do you agree with the grounding aspects as outlined by the original author?
Why do you keep asking for me to contact these people when it was Nick that asked me to take a look at the material and post anything I found that I disagreed with???
Will you Please answer my questions???
Well Joe as a member of this forum please enlighten me. Just what do I not understand?
Please explain it to me and be sure to do it in a way that this lowly hillbilly can understand.
I don’t feel that I am wasting my time any time that I try to explain electrical theory to anyone who don’t have a full understanding.
If you think that I am wasting your time there is a simple solution, don’t read them.
Once again I ask you if you agree with the material that Nick has ask the electricians to look over?
Do you agree with the grounding aspects as outlined by the original author?
Respectively
Mike
Edited to add:
Oh and by the way Joe what you have posted above is not what Nick asded to have us look at now is it?
Isn’t what Nick asked us to look at a condensed version with a couple of changes to the language?
Isn’t what Nick asked us to look at accessible from this site?
I will like to help ya with this., However ,… Unforteally I only can get into first page but for the rest there is not much I can do due I am not a member of this orgazation.
Nick., If you can find a way to tempory bypass this so I can able read the rest if that ok with you ?
The earth, by virtue of the moisture contained within the soil, serves as a very effective conductor. Therefore, in power transmission, instead of having both the hot and neutral wires carried by the transmission poles, one lead of the generator is connected to the ground, which serves as a conductor. All electrical utility wires are carried by the transmission towers and are considered hot or charged. At the house, or point where the electricity is to be used, the circuit is completed by another connection to the ground.
The electric power utility provides a ground somewhere in its local distribution system; therefore, there is a ground wire in addition to the hot wires within the service drop. In FIGURE 11.1, this ground can be seen at the power pole that contains the step-down transformer.
In addition to the ground connection provided by the electric utility, every building is required to have an independent ground, called a system ground. The system ground is a connection to ground from one of the current-carrying conductors of the electrical system. System grounding, applied to limit overvoltages in the event of a fault, provides personnel safety, provides a positive means of detecting and isolating ground faults, and improves service reliability. Therefore, the system ground’s main purpose is to protect the electrical system itself –it offers limited protection to the user.
The system ground serves the same purpose as the power company’s ground. However, it has a lower resistance because it is closer to the building. The equipment ground protects people from potential harm during the use of certain electrical equipment. The system ground should be a continuous wire of low resistance, and of sufficient size to conduct current safely from lightning and overloads.
Take off on these three paragraphs here. Notice the first paragraph and how the lead from the generation plant plays into the grounding electrode installed at a house.
In the thrid paragraph notice what is implied concerning the connection of the electrode conductor.
A member, Russ Meyers, compiled this stuff from public domain government sources. He sent it over to staff where our proofreader found a bunch of mistakes. She is not an electrician. She fixed all the typos and gramatical errors. Then I pumped it into our online course system and built the quizzes and exams.
I for one appreciate the fact that you are looking for something that is as close to correct as possible before using it for continuing education.
I sit on the Education Committee for the NCIAEI where we design programs for continuing education for Electrical Inspectors and Contractors for here in NC. These are one day work shops for 8 hours of CEUs and we strive to ensure that the material is as current and correct as possible.
Once I started posting things at your request that I thought might need attention another member came back telling me that I was wasting my time and for me to send any suggestions I had to some governmental agency.
This member is a long standing member that has been involved in some of the programs that NACHI has used in the past so I wasn’t sure what was going on and stopped. I have asked this member several times if he thought that the material was correct but that member either don’t know or don’t care as he refuses to answer my questions.
Knowing about some of the reprisals that have come to other members of this forum when they disagreed with this member I was afraid to continue not knowing what this member might try and do to me.
This material is old and outdated and has some old misconceptions as well as some down right wrong information. For the most part it does convey a message and is not really out in left field except for the concepts concerning grounding.
I have ask you several times to help with a request that Nick made and you have offered nothing constructive but did take the time to post another vulgar comment and red flag to my reputation. :twisted:
In all the years of following you and looking up to you as an expert in the electrical field I now get to see your true colors.
In the past years I can’t remember even one post you have made that would help someone with a problem they might have. Yes I do give you credit for posting links but most of the time the links are meaningless and have nothing to offer to someone that is truly seeking help.
I read all the time where you have wrecked havoc from site to site even deleting some discussion forums entirely. Here there is numerous people who claim that you have disrupted their personal lives and even tried to get some fired from their jobs.
What gives Joe? Is what people are starting to say about true? Have you gone completely off the deep end? Do you truly need help? This is not the Joe that I remember and looked up to for so many years. Do you suffer from some sort of Bipolar disorder? Are you taking your medication?
What gives Joe? Do you have anything left in you to offer the electrical field or are you just good for the type of antics you seem to be possessed with today? Can you reach deep down inside yourself and pull yourself back together?
One last time I respectfully ask you to comment on the material that Nick has asked the electrical experts to look at and comment. Unless you are admitting to me and everyone else on this forum that you are not the electrical expert you claim to be then please let us all see that you are still in there somewhere.
Well, if it is a safety issue, we should probably alert CDC that their documents are incorrect. I just want everything correct for this course.
We need to put out a bunch of new courses for state approval and we want them to be accurate: www.nachi.org/education.htm
State won’t allow inspectors to take the same course twice (and count) so it looks like we’re going to be in the approved online course building business forever.
I took a quick look at it over the weekend, it certainly needs some work, also the final exam wasn’t working when I tried it, it showed an error message.
Yes, we’re trying to put something together that is still inspection related and yet not the same as your course Gerry to help these guys in licensed states: www.nachi.org/education.htm It doesn’t have to be comprehensive, just different.
Michael writes:
As far as I know, no state will give you double CE for taking the same course twice. This means we’ll have to create new approved courses forever.
