There we go, one honest answer. You sir have hit the nail on the head. If it wasn’t for insurance inspections, most people couldn’t afford insurance, mortgages would be down here. Home Inspections would plumped. Peoples can’t be quick to try to change something, but don’t look at the snowball effect,
If it wasn’t for insurance inspections, most people couldn’t afford insurance, mortgages would be down here. Home Inspections would plumped. Peoples can’t be quick to try to change something, but don’t look at the snowball effect,
And what if those inpections are not being done correctly. What about the health, safety and welfare of the good people of this state who believe what those reports say. What happens when bad wiring is not reported, or someone gives credtis for windows that are not actually impact rated. You have just given you client a false sense of secruity. And why? All becasue you like the gravy train you are currently riding.
Now I know there are inspectors doing things things right to the best of their abililty. but I also know there are larger numbers not doing so. Hell, whe had a licensed inspector walk into an insurnce agency not too long ago and tell the agent that every home would pass a four point and all house would get credits. Do you think the agent cares. Hell no. He gets to write more policies and make more money.
There has to be accountability somewhere. Do we really want to wait until there is a hurricane. Tell me that when you hear about a house fire in your area because of a bad ground that you dont check to see if you inspected that house.
The idea is not to take any inspections away form anyone, just have them be done better and all the same way. Why cant you guys see that. Guess what, a better four point inspection could lead to higher prices. What a novel idea that would be. No more 15 minute inspections. The entities would have to comply also. Guess what, they would also have to raise their prices.
wsiegel writes:
LOL!
Your point of view is interesting, but laughable.
Robert showed up here after I stopped responding to him and his cronies on another board. Some of those same people you are too quick to share sensitive information with.
You say he will not write a wind mit class for free, so we can assume that he wants to get paid. Does he expect to get paid while on the board also? Well, I drove the state and taught wind mits for free in the beginning, because I care about the profession more than I care which association anyone belongs to. I am proud of all of the classes I wrote and taught. I am sorry if it was only to the best of my ability.
If he wants to speak for Home Inspectors he should earn that right and convince the majority he is correct. He has not done either and that is why he is in the position he is in.
Again I think he is a smart guy but he has no idea how to lead. He refuses to see anyone else’s points of view. He insults people on a consistent basis and when asked for proof of his position, he dodges or copies and pastes something that is not relevant. Now that he is not happy he is again not showing up here.
I will say no more on the matter.
Just a thought:
A committee could be formed by Florida members…maybe 5 that are very experienced in actually doing wind mits and four points, to take some time to write a specific standards of practice for each type of report.
Recommend their report to NACHI for acceptance as the associations SOP for Wind Mitigation and Four Point inspections/reports.
Or something like that?
How does he know they are not done right? I would say most underwriters are good at kicking back incorrect or incomplete reports. Who died and left RS the insurance God?
The insurance industry and OIR have done their utmost to form reports to help them determine underwriting charges. They are vague in a few areas and we, as an association, may be able to add clarity.
We may be able to help by writing and adhering to a NACH SOP for these types of inspections.
Again, just some thoughts.
Bill you are delusional if you think any of this would change by changing the requirements.
When the form gets tougher, and more people loose insurance, and more deals are killed, you can bet there will be push backs.
NO matter what profession, there will always be dishonest people. I personally focus on what I should be doing to sleep at night.
If you want things to change, then it starts here. There are lots of smart willing people to help.
Taking it upon yourself to speak on behalf of all of us, while knowing many do not agree with your ideas is not the way to do it.
My invitation still stands. He can always come on here and explain his position.
Maybe since you want to be a FABI leader, you could sit down and line out exactly what a four point is and what should we report. I mean, do we report a missing wire clamp? is this a hazard or a severe dangerous situation?
We need to know what is expected before we can do our jobs properly.
I am waiting to see what happens before I join personally. As much as I like Robert, what he has done on his own, and the arrogant blog he wrote shows he is not willing to work with existing members, instead insults many existing and potential ones.
That is not leadership in my opinion. I think they call that a dictator.
You know come to think of it. If I was an electrician, I would love to do 4 points, hell even for free. Just think of how much work I could generate for myself by going in and picking apart every single improper code violation in an older home.
How rich is that?
“How does he know they are not done right? I would say most underwriters are good at kicking back incorrect or incomplete reports. Who died and left RS the insurance God?”
Because we see it all the time. Credits are being given for windows that being listed as imapct rated but are not. Most inspectors just look online for a pemit. It is is there they just go and take a picture of the window, and maybe the ecthnig, but never verify that it is actually an impact window.
We have seen many reports that are checked staps, yet the embedment is three inches away from the truss.
Inspectors are fudging roof shapes. I just had one that only qualified as other, but lo and behold, another inspector went out and it amazinigly was now a hip roof.
The list goes on and on. An incmplete report is nothing more than a check box that as not checked. Not sure what an incorrect report is. I just gave some examples, but the UW would never know as they only look at what is provided.
Sean - no one is looking to change the requrements. They just need to be done correctly. I have no doubt that guys like you and others on this board are not doing them correctly. It the other 7500 inspctors that are not.
No one is looking to make the form tougher. Just filled out correctly. There are certain things that are wrong with the form. You guys all kow that and it is well documented on this board. What is wrong with trying to get them corrected?
Rob will not come here anymore. The funny part is he never started or got involved with this thread. You guys have all written things without knowing all of the details. I dont blame him for not coming here anymore. You guys have been less than nice to him from the beginning.
I am currentlhy working on a four point standard for the FABI. Whether it will get approved or not I dont now. Whether the insurnce companies will want it or not I dont know. It will be presented at the next FABi board meeting. If you are a member you are free to sit in on the meeting.
Remeber peoply laughed at Einstein too. And look what he did
If you have any questions feel free to call me. I am getting tired of this back and forth stuff and half truths being told. I wil not be responding to this thread any more. I have work to do to prepare for our next conference.
Multiply that for plumbers, HVAC, and roofers. “Free 4-point inspection with all completed work”.
Imagine if you assembled a team of those guys who would pay you a referral fee of 10% for all work they got…just sayin…
The very definition of general contractor.
Sounds like a people problem not a form problem. Maybe if there were a system in place to make sure inspectors who write bad reports were made to take remedial courses or some kind of deterrent.
No one enforces anything about any of it. There is no money to do so. The O.I.R. does not care one bit about any of this or us.
Robert, did not say anything here. I can read his website.
So you want to do a four point? What your not getting, is that to do a four point inspection, you have to do a HOME INSPECTION. So now 4 points are going to cost $700.
To check the electrical, where would it stop? Pool lights? Landscape lighting? Open junctions in the attic? Outlets with failed GFCI’s? Now do you check each and every outlet even soffit mounted outlets? Or just the accessible ones? Do we move beds to check outlets behind the headboards? Do we remove the hydrojet tub covers to ensure the outlets are GFCI and the motor is grounded? Is each breaker labeled properly and do we shut them off and go check?
We are JUST TALKING ELECTRICAL portion here! Who decides how far we go? Robert? You? FABI? Who comes up with it?
How about we keep doing them as we have for the past 10 years. Keep in the spirit of the form. I do understand some people take short cuts, but lets say you want EVERYTHING checked. Do you want photos of every outlet with a tester in it? Which tester do we use a three prong tester or a circuit analyzer? Which circuit analyzer? Do we have to be trained and course completed approved to use that analyzer?
Understand this, dishonest people are going to be dishonest no matter what. You come up with 10 new rules they will find 100 ways around them. Honest people also make mistakes they are human.
But here is just a weird weird concept, How about the huge profit companies that are insurance companies, collect our forms and they either accept them or turn them away due to a discrepancy.
I have been called and asked for clarification on wind mits, and they got it. I din’t just give them a pencil check, I had to provide proof. A few times pictures were not clear enough and they had to be retaken.
Why did they have to be retaken? Because my CLIENT needed it. I don’t make the client happy enough times, my business goes bye bye. See how that works?
What do you mean insurance agents just want to write policies? They are GOING to write the policies, its just a matter of how much they pay. So do you think insurance agents want to collect $2500 a year or $3500 a year? Think about it.
The checks and balances are proper as they sit. Your trying to make a mountain out of a pimple on an noseeums ***.
If you think wind mits suck, how about Home Inspections? I even heard of idiots trying to do “code inspections” on houses! Can you believe how dumb that is? Some municipalities adopt codes at different times, houses get partial upgrades at different times and there is even code which allows you not to follow code! Its called the AHJ, so if its not “code” but allowed, is it code?
My company has been in place for over 30 years as an inspection company. The job and tools have gotten more technical, but a roof leak today is the same as it was 30 years ago.
People who cannot market themselves and obtain a professional fee for their service, then tries to look at 7499 people and say they are WRONG, and he is doing them right!
So go to Tallahassee and tell them that you speak for YOURSELF and that you think we should disrupt a multi billion dollar industry because a form they mandate to obtain the information and photos is done wrong.
When I know I am right and someone else is wrong on the forms, I could care less. I do it the way I know how and if someone else wants to lie, Let them. Why worry about it?
Russell,
I think you are going to the extreme. I perform the 4-point inspections just like a home inspection using the standards for a home inspection. Same pre-inspection agreement as well.
I agree that the 4-point should have stayed what it was, have these items been updated or not. But, when I proposed a standardized 4-point form and offered to design it, people mocked and insulted me. Enjoy what you have now…home inspectors brought it on themselves. And, the ones who are doing these for 75 bucks will eventually get in trouble. I know of several who are going to be in for a rude awakening very soon as I have been contacted by a few attorneys and reinspected homes where 4-points were done improperly and then the insurance company sent someone else out to do a 4-point.
Now these people are going to have to fix the things the second inspector found in order to keep their insurance. At least the insurance companies are being nice and giving them 90 days to do the work…work that should have been found on the original 4-point inspection, not the white-washed ones I have seen.
On to wind mits…In the members section of this message board, there is a question about a roof to wall connection. The picture is of a truss connector which isn’t even over a wall. The inspector claims to have taken some courses. These are the individuals who are doing these inspections and doing them wrong. Ever hear the phrase one bad apple spoils the bunch? There are several bad apples out there…
Eric, Even as a new inspector myself I found that post very troubling. How does a Home Inspector licensed in the State of Florida that advertises on his website " Put my years of experience in the building and contracting trade to work for you." stick his head into an attic access and does not know where to find the RTW connections or even what they look like?:shock:
I find those posts troubling also, especially when they are in my area. I was in an attic awhile back and noticed sharpie marks from a previous wind mit. The problem…these marks were on the roofing nails BETWEEN the trusses, and he/she wrote 6d nails @ 12" OC “in the field”…LOL.
I think we all agree there should be more education. That is why I am an advocate of more than one class, more than one point of view. I also find it disturbing when some clearly have no idea and did not follow any class. If they are that clueless and they need some one-on-one training. I am not sure why any member on interNachi would not review the examples and videos.