HVAC - Drip leg vs. Sediment trap

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I did provide you the information. Two manufacturer’s use the term interchangeably. I have provided you a lot of information, including how you whined about being personally attacked while you dished out plenty of insults.

You have learned today, that sediment and drip are different things; however drip is so outdated that it is commonly used interchangeably with sediment at a high level. You have learned that you are a hypocrite when it comes to dishing out insults. You have learned you are so defensive with such a high desire to be right on a miniscule topic you are willing to alienate good people.

But in reality, I do not think you learned any of this.

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Symptoms of Oppositional Defiant Disorder

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nagBpUD
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You provided mainly hearsay from other posts, and the information you did provide is very weak and play perfectly into the commentary from the ultimate authority (International Code Counsel) about many incorrectly interchanging the two terms, IRC is very very clear about this. The fact that you won’t quite amazes me honestly. You and your other tribal think buddies on here.

Brain you might notice that once you stop attacking me, maybe I won’t return the favor, think about it.

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No Kidding!! I glanced at it this morning at 4 AM while waiting for my KW to warm up and again about an hour ago when I parked it, took a while to say the least to go through everything.

So Mr. Lang, just a few words. Since you appear to be new here, there is one thing that is apparent based on reading ALL of this thread, You have in fact pissed off and directly insulted some of the most helpful individuals on this MB, (I wont bother quoting what has been said since it has already been established). Bad juju for somebody in your shoes. This MB is an excellent place to learn things not taught in any class or online education platform, however when the student tries telling the teacher how things are and makes demands the way you have sir, your education will go nowhere real quick. I have had many o “student” under me throughout my years in construction amongst other things, and if there is one thing that has held true throughout that time is that those that don’t HEAR what is being said flat out wont last in any industry. Clearly you are listening to Jimmy but you are not HEARING Jimmy.
Seems to me, you were also asked some very simple and direct questions that you still have not answered. These questions were not in any way derogatory or insulting either, they were just simple questions.

Now, moving on to the point that I originally intended. Regardless of what any BOOK says, the realities of what can be found in the field in different parts of the country can and will be different at times. Not all municipalities, counties, states follow the same codes or versions thereof. You referenced several “code books” from different time frames and categories, providing an inconsistent argument. If you are going to use “code” as guidance, that’s totally fine PROVIDED you are consistent. Some code books will actually read different than others when it comes to specific topics while others won’t even mention those same topics (generally speaking and NO I will not provide examples, you can do that on your time).

For YOUR benefit: Even as @mwilles pointed out, even though the “code books” say one thing, Nachi schooling teaches the drip leg and sediment trap are one in the same.
image
image

Case in point, the following pictures are of a similar setup to what you posted yesterday:
image

The only real difference is that the pictures are of an air system instead of natural gas. The (crude) red arrows indicate “product” (air) flow , the orange/green arrows point to a “sediment trap” as per your post:

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Note the petcock valve at the base of the “sediment trap”. That is there because:

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It fills with condensed water. :sweat_drops:
Again, yes it is every day air and not Natural Gas, but the principles are the the same and the design of the “sediment trap” are exactly what “code” would state if it were an NG supply.

So… Happy learning! And as Forest Gump once said, “That’s all I gotta say 'bout thaat”

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We know the ICC has defined the two terms. But to interchange them does not change their function. A drip is outdated. A sediment accomplishes the same thing, so much so manufacturers use them interchangeably as well. Here is yet another example. (the other screen shots I provided were just as reliable as your screen shot, but in this case I will provide the a whole install guide just for you in order to eliminate the stupid hearsay statement).

Reliance
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Reliance-Water-Heater-6-75-URRS-Manual.pdf (2.6 MB)

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So at least you admit you are not above it all and stop whining about it.

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Hi, Jordan, What to hell is up? I see that you are still hanging in there, :roll_eyes:

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Michael,
You definitely know how to start off on the wrong foot don’t you. You should have just started by providing your information. By the way, my education is going just fine, I am able to learn more researching for myself, then I am getting biased misinformation from the good old boy group on here.

Lets examine your oversimplification of the phrase “any BOOK”. The way you stated this basically says that the 2021 IFGC, 2019 CPC, 2009 IRC Commentary version, the 2000 IRC, and the 2015 UPC referenced above in this thread, are basically worthless because it’s just a meaningless book…are you kidding me right now? lol.

You might want to ask yourself, what is the purpose of the ICC, or the International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials who created the UPC. I will do what your buddies would not do, and give you the answer. They were created, in part to create standards. What are the purpose of standards you might ask yourself, standards are a means to make sure everyone is speaking the same language, or is on the same page, or to further elaborate, keep home inspectors from arguing on forums about who is right and who is wrong lol. Once you understand the purpose of standards and the entities who created them, you might take there literature with a little more weight. Especially, when they warn that many use these terms are interchanged mistakenly.

With much respect to InterNACHI, I think the diagram is mistakenly wrong. Does it matter a whole lot, probably not. By the way, I have been very consistent, go back and read my posts on this thread.

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Brain hold on…I will get to you in a minute. I do like what you posted though.

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You’ll do fine. Open minded. Experienced. Respectful.

And you would never go as far as telling anyone that they do not understand code when most have been reading it, following it and putting it into their building practice for longer than you have been alive.

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Michael,

To discuss your image of the air sediment trap that is also acting as a drip, I like the fact that people are finally off the insult train and actually trying to produce evidence, I like it. Now you know that I am going to continue my argument unless you are able to logically beat the last few arguments I have supporting my “theory” I guess lol. I though about this earlier when reading the codes that I was referencing. The codes say that the drip shall be placed at the lowest part of the system, and in a location where freezing will not occur. The sediment trap, is to be placed after the shut off valve, but before the flex, as close to the appliance as possible. Now I have been waiting for someone to make this point since yesterday, but I guess I will be the first. Is it possible that the lowest point in the system would also be after the shut off valve, near the appliance where the sediment trap is? possibly yes, could a sediment trap, if it is also located within these locations parameters function as a drip leg yes. Does it mean they are the same thing no. If you don’t understand the last sentence, let me explain with this…CAN ALL SEDIMENT TRAPS ACT AS DRIPS? CAN ALL DRIPS ACT AS SEDIMENT TRAPS? The answer is no, this is explained simply by a scenario. If a sediment trap is not located at the lowest point in a wet gas system, or is not located in an area safe from freezing, it could not act as a drip. The same logic works for the drip. All drips can not act as sediment traps, why? if the drip does not change direction after a vertical or gravity assisted drop in the plumbing, or is not located after the shut off valve as close to the appliance as possible. The drip are supposed to be located at the outlet of the meter according to code, and the sediment traps as close to the appliance after the shut off valve. Now do you see the logic.

Now after that being said, can you have a setup where these two separate devices are able to be located in a location and meet the design requirements for both systems where they satisfy the code, possibly, but my guess is that it is more on the rare side. This is probably where some of the confusion comes from.

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Well they definitely have not been citing code very much, also to return your insult back to you, you will need to provide their credentials proving that they have had their little certifications before I was born, because from your posts on this thread, you seem to be mostly filled with hot air.

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I spoke too soon :man_facepalming:
A big thank you to Brain Cawhern for that.

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Well, I have been in construction since 1983 working with my late father who was a commercial and residential builder since 1962.

Now, you can find some wet gas in small select regions of the US. In these regions, local code will enforce wet gas requirements. For that reason, as we have all agreed, drip and sediment traps are different. But for the remaining vast majority of the country (including plumbing and HVAC manufacturers) the term drip and sediment is interchangeable and often is the same component.

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Go read my response to Michael above that I just posted, you will see that due to the installation requirements of the code, such as locations requirements which are different for each component, it not always possible for a drip to act or meet the requirements of a sediment trap and vice versa. Therefore, they can not logically be the same thing, even if they could possibly act in a duel capacity sometimes. Does this make sense? Let me just quote my explanation from above, below:

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I got it. I can read it once and understand it.

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Brain,
I looked at the Reliance water heater manufacturer document you provided, and you are not going to like what it says, I annotated it to save you time:

Reliance waterheater
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It first says to follow local or state codes which I have provided California’s 2019 CPC and also the 2015 UPC to suffice my state, which show these as two systems according to the unique definitions and installment requirements for each system.

It does say that if codes are not available, to reference the NFGC, maybe this is the source of the screen shot you provided that mentions drips as sediment traps?

Furthermore Reliance’s own diagram shows a sediment trap and not a drip.

I do thank you for actually finding something with some meat on the bone regarding your position. I will look as the NFGC next, but even if we do, note that it will be referenced only in the absence of local code, but I do like it, cause you actually found something here if it is indeed.

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So baseball bat or a stick are different but the same. They both can hit a ball or crack a skull. So, I would call them both a bat or both a stick and be right. Just following your logic.

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Don’t forget this one.