Inspection Question

I completely agree. The thing is in this thread the OP mentions a few things like meter inside, 100 amp main on 60mamp service etc… so since there are already a few questionable issues and the service is old, a quick heavy up is not that expensive and would do wonders for this home. Upgraded grounding system, all new state of the art breakers, new SEC cable as opposed to (most likely) old frayed nasty sec, …so many benefits and safety improvements it would simply be a worthwhile “Recommend Further Evaluation” like I said In My opinion.

Jim

Dammit, I new I forgot something…arggg I always miss the Ying/Yang appliances in thse convos…hahaha;)

Jim

Jim you didn’t answer my question at all.

Is the load calc needed to determine that the wiring system needs to be updated?

Or

Is the load calc needed when updating the wiring to determine the size of the service, and branch circuits?

Sorry Juan, I don’t think by your questions that you are fully aware what a Load calculation even is. In a nutshell it has nothing to do with the branch circuit wiring within the structure. It is a calculation that determines the average need for and amount of amperage to satisfy the average load usage of a structure. This is based on many factors within the calculation such as square footage, number of and types of appliances etc…

Branch circuit wiring really has nothing to do with the Appropriate main service size. Branch circuit wiring has its own codes and criteria and is separate from what the main incoming service size is.

Jim

I don’t know what a load calc is, or how it’s performed. That’s why I asked the question. I think you answered it, but I am slow and can’t read between the lines. Can you make your answer clear for me?

Is the load calc needed to determine that the wiring system needs to be updated?

Or

Is the load calc needed when updating the wiring to determine the size of the service.

The answer will influence how I report on 60 amp services.

Read post 21 above that explains it pretty much.

Now don’t get me wrong, on a typical inspection where there was nothing wrong with the electrical panel, meter, or anything to do with the service, I would not recommend further evaluation or a heavy up or load calculations or anything like that. This post was different as there were already issues, thus in MY Opinion my recommendations would be as I stated.

The size of the electrical service has little to do with the branch circuit wiring. It has to do with the average Power Consumption that a building will need to operate properly and safely.

Jim

Can someone give me a straight forward answer?

No.

Generally speaking, maybe :D, but not always.

In most cases (depending on your location and type of residence) new services are required to be a minimum of 200 amps. Some jurisdictions may still allow for 100 amp service upgrades, but I don’t know where that might be.

If it’s a large residence, or one that will have workshops or other major power-grabbers, a load calc will help determine if the service should exceed 200 amps, and/or if multiple panels will be necessary.

Jeff so you are saying in some areas a load calc would not be needed because 200 is the minimum allowed?

So if I wanted to add heat pump, to a home with a 60 amp service, I probably still wouldn’t need a load calc becuse the system is just going to need the min 200 amp anyways?

Hmm. So wouldn’t it be more prudent and accurate to let my clients know they should consider an upgrade without mentioning a load calc?

Correct.

In all my years, I have never recommended a load clac on existing construction.

Remove the word “need” from all comments above, and perhaps you will better understand. No one “needs” anything. Is it required? Is it recommended? Is it suggested?

An 85 year old home with 60amp service DOES NOT NEED to upgrade to 200amp service. Upgrading to 100amp service to allow for a heat pump is perfectly acceptable. NEW CONSTRUCTION REQUIRES 200amp** service**.

As do service upgrades on SFR’s over 1000 sq ft in my area…

I wanted to know when a load is Needed. That is what I am trying to learn. I got my answer now though. Thank you.

Juan, all of mine and Jeff’s comments above are correct. let me also just explain 1 thing. I keep using the term Load Calculation when talking about upgrading an electrical service also known as a Heavy-up for a reason. In the 3 states I worked Maryland, D.C. and Virginia the power companies would want justification when an electrical contractor requested a Power upgrade, and that justification is a “Load Calculation” which is a detailed calculation of the building and its assumed electrical requirements. The wouldn’t just install and provide a 600 amp service for a 1000 sq ft shack with all gas appliances, that would be a waste of their resources. They like to size the services appropriately.

Jim

Thank for your help Jim.

I have the answers I need now.

No problem Juan, as a matter fact if you want to discuss this any further I can always give you call.

Jim

Now that’s a Freudian slip if ever I seen one! :mrgreen:

Jeff that was funny, I made the correction but you’ve already quoted it, I actually gave Juan a call to see if I could explain better on the phone.

I am always willing to help a fellow inspector anyway I can.

Jim

Yes jim explained on the phone to me that Jeff Pope was right and he would not actually recommend a load calc in this, or any situation.