My question is concerning a tiny leakage in a suction pipe inside the home right next to the furnace/evaporator cabinet. According to owner the hole is not even visible. It was detected by HVAC technician. The question is: is it still evaporating during winter time when AC system is not under pressure? The hole is duct taped. The unit is in occupied basement. The coolant is R410A. I read that coolant leakage is not healthy for breathing. However, the client asks if it is OK to wait till spring time before deciding what to do with it (fix or replace). The unit is Trane XB high efficiency 2012.
Thank you in advance for any advice.
Dmytri.
Any chemical that can float through the air handling system has the potential of being dangerous. Why do they want to wait until spring? Are you doing a pre-listing inspection and they hope to sell the home before Spring??
Emmanuel, thank you for replying. This is my practice inspection done for my acquaintance. I am not certified yet. Not sure if they are going to sell the house. But they wanted to have my opinion. I am trying to convince them to fix it but they don’t take it seriously.
If there is a leak in the refrigerant lines (any refrigerant) AC operation (cooling) will suffer. I wonder why this wasn’t noticed. Typically symptoms are noticed first (reduced cooling) and the needed repair/reason is determined later.
p.s. It is refrigerant, coolant is what you have in your cars radiator.
Maybe you should get in the habit of letting a sleeping dog lay. Don’t get in a habit of trying to change people’s minds. All we can do as Inspectors is find, report, and advise. From there it is up to the client to take action. I have plenty that do not heed the report and advice and I don’t get worked up about it as it is not something I can control. All you will do by pushing it is build up your own aggravation and possibly lose an acquaintance if they feel you’re to pushy.
I once inspected a house that I had been to before. I remembered it well because the first time I inspected it the deck planks were so rotten, I fell through to the ground (only 5 ft below). I was surprised on this day to find the hole in the deck that I made a couple years previous. Nobody was using the deck, but they didn’t have the budget to fix it either. I found many other items that day that I had recommended for repair before.
My question is concerning a tiny leakage in a suction pipe inside the home right next to the furnace/evaporator cabinet. According to owner the hole is not even visible.
It does not need to be visible to leak!
At about 65° f indoor air temperature the pressure, the refrigerant will be about 95 PSI. Whenever the furnace comes on the temperature is going to go way the heck up from there. So yes it’s going to leak.
It was detected by HVAC technician. The question is: is it still evaporating during winter time when AC system is not under pressure?
The hole is duct taped. The unit is in occupied basement. The coolant is R410A. I read that coolant leakage is not healthy for breathing.
What might you think duct tape is going to do? If you stick to pipe up your nose it probably won’t be too good for you but when you disperse it across entire cubic feet in the house you’re not going to have any ill effects.
As for fixing versus replacement, nobody’s going to replace that equipment because of that leak. The refrigerant can be simply pumped down into the condensing unit, selection line repaired, and let the refrigerant rip and you’re done.
Yes, indeed, first oily spots were noticed, then a technician came to check them. And thank you for the correction- of course - refrigerant it is.
Dmytri
Thank you for the advice. It gives me a peace of mind. I thought so too: if the house is well ventilated the evaporated refrigerant should be completely dispersed.
Sometimes the absence of things can give us answers. I’ve never heard anything about a hazard from leaking refrigerant. I’d have to think that in today’s ultra-sensitive world, if leaking refrigerant into living spaces posed a health hazard we’d have detectors, rules, laws and all kinds of hype and hysteria. I personally wouldn’t worry much about that aspect of the problem.
All that being said, a leak really should be fixed. I was actually just looking into this for a friend that has a rental unit with a slow leak in a mini-split at one of the indoor air-handlers. What I found is that copper coils are much easier to repair than aluminum. Sidebar - that is a TERRIBLE picture to show a problem. Use a flash whatever you need to do. You’ll get killed as an inspector if you put pics like that in your reports.
From what I know about leakage, it’s happening whether the system is in use or not so yes it’s leaking over the winter. The system I was helping with needed more refrigerant after about 5 months of originally being filled. Not a great situation but I can understand having it recharged a couple times a year for a few hundred dollars compared to replacement (6K for the indoor unit with the leak, 16K for the whole system). System is 15 years and I told her I can’t see putting 6K into it but, obviously, 16K is a tough pill to swallow so I get just recharging a few times until one figures it out. And this is in Maui. I know 6K for an indoor coil is ludicrous… everything here is. Trades are particularly crazy since they are in such demand.
The larger pipe carrying cold refrigerant back to the compressor?
Observation: We were told by the home owners full disclosure, there is a leak in the refrigerant line that has for the time being being covered with tape. It was discovered by a licensed HVAC technician. Tape is not a professional repair.
A: Undercharged system,
B: Continuous loss of refrigerant.
C: Indoor Environmental hazard.
D: Energy and comfort loss.
Recommend: A licensed professional HCVAC installation and repair contractor/technician, further evaluate and make any repairs as soon as posable.
Act upon any recommendations therein.
It’s more an asphyxiation issue in a confined area than a toxicity problem. Even the old school Earth Crime R-12 wasn’t very toxic. I can’t tell you how many cars we “harvested” parts off of in the 80s and 90s and the junk yard dudes would just cut the AC line and a cloud of white gas would shoot out for a few minutes. “There ya go, that one probably works”, and we’d unbolt if stick it on something else.
The ironic part of this question is that when the system is running, it loses less gas, but since the pressure is higher, when it shuts off and the pressure equalizes, it then loses more gas than if it just sat there doing nothing.
As to how fast it will leak this is mostly due to temperature differential. The hotter it is, the faster the gas will escape.
Thank you Mark for trip into the “wild” days of the past🙂 And thanks for the pressure in the system explanation. In the suction line the pressure drops when the system is running and slightly rises when it is idle. That makes sense!
Hey Robert, how about giving us a rundown on the : Indoor Environmental hazards of HVAC refrigerants. Starting with ammonia which killed people from their refrigerators back in the day.
Dmytri - this is a gas furnace with air conditioning I assume. So this unit does not run in the winter time. However the temperature rise of the Furnace across the air conditioning coil will cause a significant rise in pressure throughout the winter.
Small refrigerant leaks are not readily detectable. The first thing noticeable is by the compressor not you. The refrigerent charge in the air conditioner has got to have enough refrigerant left over from cooling the house to cool the compressor.
The loss of refrigerant pressure from a leak prevents the return of compressor oil back to the compressor. This will destroy the compressor without you even knowing it until it happens. The second thing that happens from the loss of is that when the pressure drops, the temperature of the drops below freezing and ices up the coil. This will potentially damage the coil which will require a replacement versus repair in most cases.
Also the refrigerant will not change state from a liquid to a vapor and if liquid gets into the compressor, it will damage the valves and/or crankshaft of the compressor.
Age or the unit means nothing. I have a heat pump 26 years old and still runs fine.
The homeowners nondisclosure of a defect is a legal issue which may affect you with all the facts you are aware of.
David thank you for your help explaining what happens to the system with low level refrigerant. I didn’t understand why is oil not returning to the compressor. Does it ever leave compressor?
