Will, YES! Very helpful analysis. Wish I knew of them in time to save you a few $$$ - I just have been doing a bunch of research on my budget for next year, and potential purchases.
I guess the number of photos stored depends ont eh size of the SD card… What are the 4 display modes for the FLIR?
I will check on the temp tile display. And training is a must - good point.
Thanks!
A few points to ponder on IR technology from previous posts:
Quote…“Ok. Does this one show water intrusion”…Just to be clear, thermal imaging does not show moisture intrusion. Thermal imaging shows thermal patterns or temperature differences on the surface of the object you are scanning.
An IR camera is a tool that still requires a further evaluation, either by you or someone else. When scanning an object and you detect a thermal anomolie, you must further investigate the anomolie and try to determine the cause. You’re taught in training to always back-up your suspicions first with a moisture meter and if the moisture meter fails to tell you anything, you then investigate further.
So why not just use a moisture meter? It will take you days to scan an entire house with a moisture meter. You could also use an infrared spot thermometer but that would take you months, if not longer to scan and document temperatures of every square centimeter in a house for comparison. Those comparison temperatures (the image you see on the camera) is what makes it very quick and possible to determine anomolies, which could be associated with leaks or moisture intrusion in the walls before it becomes visible on the surface.
A good contract for thermal imaging will spell out exactly what you will be scanning and what you wont be scanning. The contract should tell the client what the camera’s limitations are. What the camera can and can not detect. The contract should also point out that destructive discovery will not be performed, unless you’re going to get into that (check with your E & O provider). Since the majority of you/us will not be performing destructive discovery, the client needs to be aware up front that thermal imaging is not the final answer and that destructive discovery may be necessary. The client needs to be aware that if destructive discovery is performed, there is no guarantee that anything will be found once the wall, ceiling, etc., is opened up. The ultimate decision for destructive discovery is up to the client. It’s a chance the client takes. It’s not very reassuring, but ‘usually’ when you’re called out or asked to do an IR inspection, they already know there’s a problem.
Regarding the ghost post…This is a classic example of a thermal reflection. Unlike visible light where you need a highly reflective surface to see yourself, thermal reflections can bounce off of a huge variety of seemingly non reflective surfaces including painted surfaces.
Quote…" Most Realtors are going to HATE this tool… It will be the DEAL KILLER TOOL! just watch…"…Agreed, but guess who the Realtors call for an inspection? If you try to market this to Realtors, you may be out of business before you’re ready to. Market to the public by running an add in the yellow pages under plumbing…“Got leaks?”. Market to plumbing companies, roofing companies, other home inspectors in your area, builders, lawyers specializing in construction related defects, water restoration companies, and mold remediation/inspection companies to name a few.
Quote…“I don’t think this will ever be a big hit with inspectors. I’m assuming the use of this equipment will take our current level of liability as an inspector to the extreme.”
I disagree and think the use of this equipment with a well written contract can and will lesson your liability. FREA covers the use of a thermal imaging camera provided it’s used during the course of a home inspection. If the insurance carrier agrees to cover it, then they too must agree that it reduces the liability.
All good points, Joe.
Please remember, training is the key. You have to understand how to use any tool you have.
It would be great if one of the suppliers at the Canadian Conference had a display of these . Roy Cooke
The cameras are pretty easy to use, the result interpretation requires training.
Roy, we will have cameras at our convention for you to try out http://www.nachi.org/convention2007.htm
Free training: http://www.homesafeinspection.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=157&Itemid=197
Michael Rowan and I are going to put on some free training too.
Can you believe, they now have a pocket sized infrared camera…
http://www.imaging1.com/razir.html
I talked with this guy. Good product, techincally. Good product.
As to the free training, just remember, and read, you have to buy their ‘product’ first.
I did work with this technology (thermographic imaging) in 1980 at the University of Chicago.
http://ezinearticles.com/?A-Tool-for-Early-Breast-Cancer-Screening&id=66026
http://cbs2chicago.com/health/health_story_293191833.html
http://www.cancer.gov/dctd/cip_accomplishments
It was used in medical imaging for a quick screening for breast cancer (no radiation dosage, as opposed to x-rays). It kind of fizzled out, but is comming back.
Understand:
Breast cancer - hard
Moistiure intrusion, eectrical panel defects , mold, termites, pests, etc - easy.
Today we added thermal imaging to http://www.inspectorlocator.com
If you offer any of the ancillary services listed on www.InspectorLocator.com please add them to www.nachi.org/ancillary.htm so that you appear in consumer searches for inspectors who offer thermal imaging or infrared camera inspections.
Cool.
Thanks, Nick.
Top left link of www.choosenachi.com
Hey Nick,
How come we cant use the 15% tool discount on the IR camera? Discount says “ALL” tools?? Is the IR camera not a tool?
Hey, he already got the price lowered by $500. (6750.00 vs 6250) and 50% off the training. My training cost 1550. So 500 + 775 = 1275. Not quite 15%, but I would have taken it.
It’s a B**tch being on the cutting edge.
Will,
I received my camera last week and I have to thank you for your information to me in regards to the B-CAM. I have used the camera 5 times in the past week and it just amaxing. (I am also using the moisture meter along with the camera at the same time)
Thanks again for you help and I’m sure I will be picking your brain again on this subject.
Tom
Allpro Home Inspection Ser. Inc.
266 Church Road
Pine Bush, NY 12566
845-744-5582
Where is the free training for the B camera buyers?
Erol,
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[FONT=Arial]The training is taught by Inspection Depot. We have encompassed the training we received from when finalizing our qualifications with Building Science, Thermal 1 and Thermal 2 certifications from FLIR. Because the price for FLIR training is so expensive, we wanted to offer an alternative for those getting into the field. The cost of the training is $600, NACHI members who purchase the B Cam on www.choosenachi.com receive half off. $300 for a 1-day course covering much of what is taught in Bulding Sciences, Level I and Level II. The instructor is certified in all 3 courses. We also teach the most important aspect of these cameras. How to interpret the images, other relevant training information for home inspectorsas well as how to use the camera and the various types involved. We include many case studies for everybody’s benefit as well.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]We are setting up dates for different parts of the country as I write this, the first few are in Jacksonville, FL. If you have any questions, please contact me.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial]Catherine[/FONT]
Does this training confer a level 1 certification?
FLIR, R.Russell and the different inspections in Texas
Sorry that this will be a blend of two different topics; however, they are intimately connected. There is a thread floating around here where Ray was trying to get inspectors in Texas to offer different inspections. Business diversification, market share, competitive advantage, name recognition… thinking outside the box… Ray nailed this down. Although we are confined in a box by TREC in Texas in a certain respect, we are still able to offer different packages to different clients.
I offer three different inspections to different clients during a real-estate transaction. The Basic inspection meets basic TREC standards and is only a summary of things wrong with little photography or descriptive analysis. It’s targeted to newer homes and very competent veteran home owners.
The premium inspection is loaded with photos and descriptive analysis. It’s a “construction college” educational report for new homeowners… they learn why problems are problems and the ramifications for not making improvements. This inspection includes a 90 day warranty from AHWC.
The premium FLIR inspection includes all the above plus a full IR scan of all interior and exterior surfaces. Functional HVAC transmission efficiency check, and what ever else I see that catches my eye. It’s not just a home inspection it’s a performance evaluation! Folks When I sit down and talk with clients they all want FLIR inspections, even though it does have drawbacks, it’s advantages far outweigh it’s drawbacks… Yes it does have a few disadvantages; however so does your flashlight! I have discovered that it’s weakness can be strengths in other ways.
IR does not see moisture in any respect! It only sees the effect of “latent heat of vaporization” (if) moisture is present (and) the conditions are correct for that water to vaporize from a surface and to remove heat in the process… Once you understand this, you can easily manipulate the environment to milk latent water penetration problems into view with the IR… coupled with a quality moisture meter, now you have a powerful process to examine a surface for some pretty latent problems.
I have discovered that I can save most clients $300 to $500 per year or more in absolute wasted electricity and gas during just the HVAC operational evaluations alone. I discovered that 80% of wall/ceiling/floor heat registers to be leaking between 5% and 25% of volume area (mostly leaking out behind the drywall and insulation)… This is something you can not see or hear, and no visual observation can detect it…
I must admit that most real-estate agents HATE me, and I have even had one tell me to my face that all homes are filled with little water problems, it’s no big deal and that my service is not welcome in this city. This is a sad agent and one day her position will come back to eat her alive… IR analysis all boils down to your knowledge of science and your personal ethic and what you want to offer to your clients. A good sales person can sell refrigerators to Eskimos, and a good inspector can sell IR to home buyers for its many added benefits, if for no other single reason, it’s a great way to advise on the energy efficiency of the dwelling, as all have room to improve.
Ray is right to challenge the conventional wisdom of most inspectors…think outside the box, take a gamble, grow and learn. Offer top notch service that your competition does not, and clients will come… and About disclaiming limitations of things…I bought a new car recently that has like 6 airbags to save my *** in a crash; however, I am fully aware that even with all those extra air cushions, I could very well die in that car, in a crash… The whole point if IR and air bags is not to be the end all of the human condition in those areas…but to move us to a better condition relative to where we are now. IR won’t find all problems; airbags won’t save all crash victims… Cars are safer now than in 1960, and home inspections are better now than in 1980 Thank you God and Goddess for Airbags and IR cameras… Now get out and create the demand and reap the profit…
We also offer inspection packages through our inspection company. For those that would like to review these feel free to visit www.chooseameripro.com.
We are attempting to launch these in the New Year, but the focus is to turn as many $300 inspections into $700 inspections. We know the cost of doing business is constantly increasing, so hopefully this will be a way of bringing more value to our customers at a less packaged cost.
I think also, this was part of the CMI approach that Michael is planning here in this local market.
If anyone has any questions please fee free to ask.
Thanks
Catherine
Thanks Catherine,
Does the Inspection Depot level 1 course for $300 compare to FLIR’s ITC educational affiliate course? Their’s is 3 1/2 days which I believe is a FLIR requirement in order to take their level 1 exam.
Erol Kartal
Pro Inspect