Perhaps one of the biggest and most ignored problems about licensing of any kind is people leave the construction of the licensing bill up to the legislature or people “who know what is needed”. Nothing could be further from the truth. Having been involved in keeping an eye on the legislature here in Florida, and having talked with many our our representatives, the majority haven’t a clue what it needed. All one has to do is look at the messes created in some States. The bills are often not well thought out, thrown together a hodge-podge of often contradictory elements that ends up putting some people out of business while letting the least qualified in the door. I hear many new inspectors saying they want licensing to give them credibility. Its phony credibility. The wave of a wand and all inspectors are created equal when in fact we know that not to be true. I think many believe it is the easy way out to stifle competition and hope that licensing will “scare off” many of their competitors. It just may be the one thing that will put them out of business. Especially if the elements and components of the bill that often get added at the very end just before the final vote are detrimental to the inspector. The devil is in the details and far too often, folks believe the legislature will do the right thing and correct it. So far that has never happened. Wishing in one hand and pooping in the other, see which one fills up first. The older experienced inspectors are not scared of licensing because of some inane elementary test. They know for themselves what the long range ramifications will be.
Mario,
Everyone at one time or another falls into the trap of thinking that lawmakers can easily be convinced that homeowners need to be protected from a group of sub-standard home inspectors. Don’t take my word for it, research it yourself in states that have enacted home inspector licensing the laws are in general weak and worse then that not enforced.
The home inspectors who were duped into thinking that home inspector licensing was going to be a panacea for our profession and supported government takeover are now suffering form the plagues that licensing brings.
Please research these things for yourself. In the 31 states that have passed licensing only one (New Jersey) was successful in getting lawmakers to a pass stringent enforceable law that in the next session was overturned.
I could go on & on citing other examples where licensing has failed but you will gain better understanding through your own discovery. Everyone’s ideas on what constitutes "good licensing" is different, to me it would include the following.
- Verifiable consumer protection
- Professional recognition (raised bar)
- Limit of liability
I can find no states where this has occurred or where home inspectors & consumers are better served after licensing has been enacted.
Joe.
I have done the same research that Joe has, and have come to practicaly the same conclusions, the shame of it is that I would be happy to support a bill that could be proven to achieve Joe’s list:
- Verifiable consumer protection
- Professional recognition (raised bar)
- Limit of liability
Hell under the right circumstances possibly even take 2 out of 3, but firstly I’ll go back to my issue from the other day, that is prove the need.
Regards
Gerry
Question what would you prefer.
Government licensing For home Inspectors .
Or
Having ASHI control all the Home inspectors in your state.
Please do not tell me to fight it , I am I will continue too .
What is the lesser of the two evils if we loose .
We have been fighting this fro many years and it is getting closer to happening CAHPI OAHI who are ASHI NORTH.
In my openion it would be worse to have the self appointed CAHPI controlling the Canadian Home inspectors
Roy
Joe and Gerry
I don’t profess to be an expert on this topic,but is it right for our profession to have people that basically know nothing [except maybe what they have read in a book] and call themselfs HI’s?
That’s like giving an individual the right to call themselfs an Engineer without having qualifications to back up their title [P-Eng]
Why is it that I have put myself through school for over a year [Home Inspection] even though I’m in the construction industry, and some of these guys just print business cards and are instant HI’s ?
I’m not saying that regulation of anykind is the answer, but in Canada it would be a good start.IMO
And I will do some research on this subject,I would like to be informed. My opinions here are just that opinions.
Hi Mario,
Please go back to my thread from yesterday morning, I like you do not believe that someone with no knowledge of our subject should be able to hang their shingle out, my issue is that it has never been demostrated that licensing has had any possitive effect for anybody when impossed on our profession, where do we go from here?
As I said in the previous post I am left with a paradox, what is percieved to be right, and what has had demonstrable results appear to be mutually exclusive.
Regards
Gerry
Forgive my ignorance, but can you explain how ASHI controls your business? Do you have to be a member to do home inspections in your area?
CAHPI has silently been working on this for a few years they Managed to get some government money . I and others have from the start tried to find out information and very little slips out ,
Cahpi just had their first pier review and had apparently 97 pass the exam.
The largest % as far as we can tell where CAHPI members ,to try and show they are honerable ??? they had a few non CAHPI members a couple where NACHI and just might have been a couple of independents.
When posted the comming exam at 11;00am I took my and Raymond’s application into the mail box of CAHPI ( I live in the same town as the secretary lived ) and it was in their mail box before they had picked up that days Mail .
It was reported it was first come first served .
They later said it was to be a random of applications.
I have never heard how may applied .
I was not accepted Ray was but do to false information being given out and the lack of much information Ray and Possibly others did not take the exam.
. It is only a very small amount of hear say information received . They Chair man has said that CAHPI is and will be in Charge of the Home Inspection industry in Canada.
Having dealt and been a member and on various Committees and Having won a law suit against the Ontario Association .
I do know they are not for the home inspector they are a closed group who do not follow their own rules and the government rules and still have not given out a proper finical report for many years . I do fear for the Future of the Home inspection industry in Canada.
Sorry this is so long but it really is a condensed version of what has and is happening now .
I have been told more then once by a director
( can you say Intimadation ) that I should be carefull what I say as I could end up in Court . That would gust make my day .
Roy
Valid points and no dispute from me whatsoever, I agree that there are inexperienced, uneducated inspectors who lack qualifications performing sub-standard home inspections. The problem is that licensing has proven itself to be incapable of raising the professional bar. Furthermore after licensing is enacted there are still inexperienced, uneducated inspectors lacking qualifications who are now licensed.
Strict enforceable laws based on experience and training can and will only be enacted by lawmakers who have been petitioned by a large contingent of angry homeowners who can prove that home inspectors have been ripping them off, not by a group of elite home inspectors who are seeking government’s help in forming a select guild to restrict trade.
Good licensing laws will never originate in the home inspector community, if licensing is your ultimate goal then only an allegiance with consumer and consumer advocacy groups will insure that strict licensing laws get enacted, but then you would probably not much like the results.
Time is right to realize that the government has no desire to help home inspectors restrict trade as they see no real problem and have no need to put potential voters out of work.
Carla,
You asked for pros to home inspection licensing…Perhaps you didn’t read my earlier post here. According to the state agency that has the oversight of our h.i. program, they receive very few complaints about home inspection services. Maybe this has something to do with the publics abilitiy to go on-line and check on the claims history of any particular home inspector.
Having said that, I agree with those that are against licensing when they state that bad legislation is worse than no legislation at all. Like the 7 year liability issue in Florida, that’s crazy.
Here is my earlier post:
Oregon’s h.i.'s are certified by the state’s Construction Contractor’s Board (CCB). Then each h.i. has to be licensed with the CCB as a business, or be an employee of a business that is licensed with the CCB before they start offering home inspection services. All h.i.'s are required to give the Oregon SOP to their clients during the inspection. Part 1 of our SOP informs the public how the CCB can help them if they think their home inspector was negligent. The CCB offers Oregon citizens free mediation services to those who’ve hired certified and licensed h.i.'s.
All of this to state… that the CCB is the first place consumers are directed to go when filing a complaint about their home inspector. All records of complaints, and how they were resolved, that are filed with the CCB are available for public viewing on-line. In fact, the CCB encourages consumers to check out any claims history before hiring either h.i.'s or construction services. Having registered 1200+ certified home inspectors I thought the CCB would get a fair number of complaints. I wanted to find out how many complaints they get each week so I called the CCB office and asked the woman who has the oversight of the home inspection program if she received more than 1 or 2 complaints per week. She told me that she would be surprised if there was more than 1 complaint every 3 or 4 months! That says a lot for the overall success of the program.
The attorney who reviewed my contract stated the same thing. He said there are very few h.i. lawsuits in my state. This attorney is a part of one of Oregon’s h.i. associations, reviews contracts, and is a popular speaker at CE seminars, giving us great advice on how to stay out of harms way.
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Furthermore after licensing is enacted there are still inexperienced, uneducated inspectors lacking qualifications who are now licensed.
Who’s talking experience, every new inspector is inexperienced. As for uneducated, how can you prove that? Do you really believe that inspectors from unlicensed states take more time to prepare themselves than those that have to pass their state’s exam in order to inspect. I doubt it.
Troy,
I did read your post. I found it to be very interesting
I am trying to find out just what it is about licensing that
protects the consumer, and why licensing is of any merit.
so far I think that all of these posts are excellent.
the more we talk about it I really dont feel that licensing
is needed and it seems like most feel the same way.
thanks for adding to the thread! lets keep it going
CJ
Roy,
I think that there must be a third alternative that you have failed to list. ASHI can only control it own members, not an entire profession (not that they wouldn’t if the could).
I wish you were correct but you did evade the question and at this time It looks close to me In Canada.
If it happens you can be sure there will be a dirty Court Case .
I am ready.
Roy Cooke
I did not evade the question.
I am not inclined to operate under ASHI’s rule anymore than I would any other association that declares itself (PHIC) a governing agency. It is absurd to even consider doing so, IMO.
Nor would I support socializing the profession and demeaning it to nothing more than another failed attempt of government to make decisions for the consumer.
That is my answer to your your question.
Roy,
In the United States, major cities have heavily (tax) funded public education systems.
Ask any resident of any US major city if the best education for their child would come from state licensed teachers at state controlled public educational institutions…or private schools.
Ask why a parent with the financial ability to choose would choose an expensive private school over a free public school. Post the results of your survey to this thread.
Thanks that is exactly my position I do not under any circumstances want the self appointed secret society running the Inspection business in Canada.
Leave it alone but if we must have direction let it come from the government where there is more chance of a balanced playing field. I an others have been fighting this argument for years .
You see some times others who are silly break in and then when we need the support of all NACHI members both Canadian and US some jump in and ridicule us who are trying to support all inspectors .
They also say little about those non members who are out to destroy
I do thank you and others who have been with us all the and NACHI Canada And NICK.
I have not for one minute changed my thoughts and directions .
We have many great Inspectors in Canada but it is the Closed door associations who I fear.
Roy
Mario <quote>“Why is it that I have put myself through school for over a year [Home Inspection] even though I’m in the construction industry, and some of these guys just print business cards and are instant HI’s ?”</quote>
In a majority of cases that specific “education” and “training” identifies the person that can add more “credibilty” to the industry. That is likely not the case most often found for the wannabee’s!
Its interesting to read the pro’s and con’s but no one that I have read has offered an alternative to licencing other than self regulation.
We know in Canada self regulatioin does not work because of the variety of conflicts, and the fact there is no outside independent oversite. If self governing bodies are not prepared to do what they claim to do then licencing will be the answer. How long does a profession try and regulate itself before things get out of hand and the matter becomes a concern for the government?
That is why it is paramount that inspectors have say in the legislation that may be forthcoming. Ignorance is bliss, lets not make the same mistakes that have been made over the last 20 years with self regulation. The time has come to atone for the past, and level the field.
Ray,
I think your vision and logic may be skewed on this subject.
Licensing is being proposed by those wanting to control the businesses of others for various reasons. You are arguing that, for lack of what you call an “alternative to licensing”, that the only remaining option is to press on with an agenda to control the businesses of others. This is not a valid (logical) argument.
A man who wishes to infringe upon my rights need not be presented a reasonable alternative in order to stop him. He need only be resisted.