Originally Posted By: srowe
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Inspected a multi today… upstairs apartments disposals cause drain on under cabinet light.
Simple cause?
Inspected a multi today… upstairs apartments disposals cause drain on under cabinet light.
Simple cause?
Originally Posted By: rmoore
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Shawn…
Without going into whether the lights should be on the same circuit or not let me try a guess.
Is it possible that they tapped the undercounter lights at the disposal switch wiring (white hot when on) and have ended up with the lights effectively being in series with the disposal? If they stay dim, rather than just flicker, when the disposal is running that may be it.
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Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com
Originally Posted By: srowe
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The lights flicker dimmer the moment the disposal is flipped.
The light then returns to normal within a few seconds.
Originally Posted By: rmoore
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Ok…
I think we can discard my "series theory" then. Sounds like you have a circuit that can't handle much more than the initial start-up load of the disposal. Disposals may be getting old? Anyway...I don't believe the disposal and lights belong on the same circuit.
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Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com
Originally Posted By: roconnor
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The light would be allowed to be connected to the disposal circuit, but the rating of the disposal can’t exceed half the 15A or 20A circuit rating (IRC E3602.3 or NEC 210.23.A.2).
Sounds like either that circuit is undersized, the disposal is going bad and drawing too much on start up, or there is a marginal connection somewhere. I would recommend that a licensed professional check it out ...
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Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: rmoore
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Robert…
A question was raised on another forum (yes...I'm a forum junkie!) regarding refrigerators on the countertop circuits. Using the info from your above post I answered it in the following manner...
| Quote: |
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NEC 210.52(B)(3) Kitchen Receptacle Requirements. Receptacles installed in a kitchen to serve countertop surfaces shall be supplied by not fewer than two small appliance circuits, either or both of which shall also be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the same kitchen and in other rooms specified in 250(B)(1). {basically pantries and dining rooms} ?there?s more but that?s all we need.
210.23(A)(2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than luminaries, shall not exceed 50% of the branch-circuit ampere rating where lighting units, cord-and-plug connected utilization equipment not fastened in place, or both, are also supplied. I believe a fridge would be considered fastened in place. So?Yes, it is permitted for the 2 20amp kitchen small appliance countertop circuits to feed other receptacles in the kitchen, including the fridge BUT that fridge has to be rated at 10 amps or less. Obviously the permitted (but not "required") separate 15 or 20 amp circuit for the fridge would be a better set up. |
Is this correct?
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Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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The only thing I would say is few refrigerators are fastened in place.
Fastened in place means literally that, not just to big and heavy to move. 
I agree with your logic though, the fridge is not moving. 
We are allowed to feed the fridge on a dedicated 15 amp circuit no GFCI.
| Quote: |
| 210.52(B)(1) Exception No. 2: The receptacle outlet for refrigeration equipment shall be permitted to be supplied from an individual branch circuit rated 15 amperes or greater. |
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Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum
Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Considering the cost or replacing the frig, I would leave it on a circuit by itself. If something were to do wrong and fry it, that would be an expensive lesson.
Joe Myers
Originally Posted By: rmoore
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Thanks guys…
As I said, I was trying to respond to another HI who had found the refrigerator on the countertop circuit and was questioning the "legality" of that. He appeared to be under the impression that the permitted 15amp fridge circuit was a requirement rather than an option.
I was just checking that my answer wasn't totally bogus.
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Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com
Originally Posted By: roconnor
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| Quote: |
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NEC 210.52(B)(1) Receptacle Outlets Served
In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A) and (C) and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment. |
The interesting thing is that section states the refrigerator "shall" be on the dedicated kitchen circuits, and ya have to go to the exception Bob quoted to install a separate circuit. Why not just state it's "permitted" to be on the came circuit ... 
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Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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| roconnor wrote: |
| Why not just state it's "permitted" to be on the came circuit ...  |
Now what fun would that be?
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Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum
Originally Posted By: roconnor
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I smell a code change … are ya game Bob …
Anything to help simplify the NEC is IMHO a good thing. Many (most?) HI's get totally lost with that code.
Where is NFPA 70A when ya need it ...
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Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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Bob
I am too lazy to do a search but remember when Mike H. responded to a disposal being on a lighting circuit?
IHHO (in his humble opinion) it was no big deal.
Mike P.
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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| Mike Parks wrote: |
| Bob
I am too lazy to do a search but remember when Mike H. responded to a disposal being on a lighting circuit? IHHO (in his humble opinion) it was no big deal. Mike P. |
I believe you remember correctly. 
I also believe he was saying that from the perspective of the NEC.
My personal view is to keep motor loads off of lighting circuits as I hate to see lights dimming / flickering.
Not that I am saying that is unsafe, I just do not like it.
Bob
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Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum