Neutral & ground under same bus bar lug?

I know grounding conductors can be double lugged and neutrals cannot, but what about one neutral and one ground?

Nope. Nothing can be with the neutral. Unless the termination is rated for more than one conductor.

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That’s what I was leaning towards. So is the concern that there is sufficient physical connection with the neutral and more than one wire would crowd the lug? Or does it have something to do with the electricity passing through it?

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But get used to seeing it. Very few panels I come across do not have some doubled neutrals.

Yes, the lug cannot secure 2 conductors properly, according to the manufacturer. There are also some concerns about isolating circuits. Just google “double tapped neutrals” and there is a ton of info out there.

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thank you for clearing that up.

While I have your ear, one more curiosity from the inspection today:

Cutler-Hammer Breakers installed on a T&B panel, but they look damn near identical to the T&B breakers.

Was one company bought by the other? Is it wrong either way?

That is beyond my knowledge but one of the electrical gurus will come along and answer. My local area is almost exclusively Square D so I am not super-familiar with the Cutler-Hammer and TB components.

Cutler hammer will publish compatible breakers. Do have a photo of the panel label, it has information you may need to make this determination. Some of the sparky’s on here know that off the top of their head.


Thank you brian, i started a dedicated thread.


[quote=“mschneider5, post:3, topic:201464, full:true”]So is the concern that there is sufficient physical connection with the neutral and more than one wire would crowd the lug? Or does it have something to do with the electricity passing through it?

No, the issue is that one or the other conductor can come loose. The lug can’t apply equal pressure to both conductors.


Is that really true if both conductors are the same size? Most neutral/EGC bus connections are permitted to have two of the same size EGC’S in a single hole and I don’t believe that it would permitted if they became loose over time.

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So is it purely a circuit isolation issue to have doubled neutrals Robert?

Where is Mr Parks when you need him most! :sunglasses:

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From my understanding that’s correct. If you had multiple conductors in the size and number permitted for EGC’s in the holes on the bus loosening wouldn’t really be an issue.


Thanks for the help and info, gentlemen!

What does that mean?

Here is a quick read that explains it fairly well.


Nice document, this statement from the link sums it up pretty well.

Multiple neutral conductors in a single termination create a significant problem when the circuit needs to be isolated. In order to isolate the circuit, the branch breaker is turned off and the neutral is disconnected by removing it from the terminal. If the terminal is shared with another circuit, the connection on the other (still energized) circuit will be loosened as well. Loosening of the second neutral (loss of neutral) under load is a safety hazard, and may establish an overvoltage condition on lighting and appliances if the neutral is part of a 120/240 Vac multi-wire branch circuit.

I’m not sure if this is what you are asking about but is good info anyway - I’ve also heard the ground and neutral from same circuit under same lug is bad because a single attachment controls both the intended (neutral) and backup (ground) paths. An electrician in a CE class once mentioned that. He also said it’s to help protect them while working on stuff - they can remove the neutral from from the bar and there is still grounding present on the circuit. If they are on the same lug that’s not possible. It’s one more thing you can put on the list when the homeowner jams a cable in the panel with no grommet and leaves the sheathing on until it’s 1" from the bus :slight_smile:

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The article does not address your statement with respect to this discussion. What are your concerns with this specific installation and the question that was asked?