Originally Posted By: John Adams This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
My wife and I signed a Purchase agreement a couple weeks ago on a new spec home which is 90% complete. We are entitled to an inspection in the next few weeks.
We desperately want to get out of this agreement and the inspection is our only contingency. We did not receive full plans/specs before purchasing the home but we have come to realize that the house is poorly built. Although I'm sure it passes all codes, specifically the windows are of such poor quality (insulative values) I cannot believe the builder used them here in Michigan.
My plan is to hire an inspector who will "tear the house to shreds" on the inspection report. But I do not know what an inspector can/cannot legally say. Anything that makes it to the report as an unsatisfactory condition gives us legal right to get out of the deal.
Can a licensed inspector say things like "poor quality windows" or "not insulative enough windows" on the report without creating liability for themselves and their license? Specifically, what CAN'T an inspector say on a report (or is there a resource online somewhere where we can look this up?)
My wife is pregnant (surprise to us after signing the papers) so that's just one more reason we just can't buy this house. I really appreciate any help or suggestions given!!
Originally Posted By: John Adams This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
My purchase agreement is with the listing agent for the builder and clearly statest the purchaser has the option to terminate the agreement if anything unsatisfactory is listed on the inspection report.
I've already retained an attorney who told me to proceed with an inspection. But my question is still, what can an inspector not say on a report, and is it permissable for me to tell him beforehand to "tear it to shreds"?
Originally Posted By: wpedley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
John,
You can not legally tell an inspector to "tear it to shreds",and even if the inspector you hire knows what you want to do,I believe it would be a conflict of interest on their part.
I don't think you will find anyone to do this if you tell them up front
what you are doing.I know I wouldn't.
Now on the other hand, if you just get it inspected by the county or township inspector and something comes up...well there you have it.
Originally Posted By: jcampbell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
If you hire a qualified inspector… they will give you a proper assessment of the property… and likely the only person guaranteed a copy of it is you the client. At least that is how it is here in Maine. We provide a copy to the client, and to others with the clients permission, but it is entirely up to the client. I suggest if you hire an inspector, you do not try to lead him in the direction you are trying to go, rather have him/her inspect the property and if his report supports your efforts you are all set… if not, pursue other avenues…
Originally Posted By: John Adams This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
You’re right, Joe… same house. My purpose here was just to determine the ethical and legal boundaries under which an inspector works. Unfortunately my real estate attorney could not comment on specific laws or regulations related to this. Thanks for the replies so far…
Originally Posted By: John Adams This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
This is in Livingston County (metro detroit)
Let me ask a different way. What if I call some local inspectors and ask... "I'm looking for a licensed inspector, experienced in new construction, who can identify defects in construction, as well as specifically note any building materials used which may be of substandard quality."
So I would not specifically mention anything but does this communicate that I want a very thorough inspection (is there any other)?
In your combined experience as inspectors have any of you ever seen a house with no issues to report? That is my fear.
Originally Posted By: tcrouch This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hello John,
Did the builder give you a list of specs prior to signing the PA? If so, and the specs were not met then you shouldn't have a problem. Also, don't assume that everything the builder used meets code. I would be suprised if the windows will pass if they are of such poor quality. It's a shame to hear of your troubles, espcially being in Michigan. I would be interested to know what part of MI you're located and what builder you are involved with. Also, and this doesn't help now, but NEVER purchase a home without having a Buyers Agent as the listing agent ALWAYS works for their client, the seller.
Originally Posted By: loconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Not all home inspectors are qualified to perform new construction inspections.
Look in your local phone book under "Home Inspections". Call the ones you want and ask them if they offer New Construction Inspections. Some times by talking to them and asking questions about new construction, you can ascertain if they know what they're talking about.
Perhaps some one here who is qualified can suggest how to look for a "qualified" new home construction inspector, and not someone who" thinks" they know.
Originally Posted By: tcrouch This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hello Larry,
In my opinion, the best way to find someone that is qualified to inspect new construction is to find an inspector that has a solid construction background and has been educated in inspecting. I am sure some will disagree with me but knowing what I know about building there is a great deal of stuff one needs to be aware of in order to do a proper inspection 
loconnor wrote:
Not all home inspectors are qualified to perform new construction inspections.
Look in your local phone book under "Home Inspections". Call the ones you want and ask them if they offer New Construction Inspections. Some times by talking to them and asking questions about new construction, you can ascertain if they know what they're talking about.
Perhaps some one here who is qualified can suggest how to look for a "qualified" new home construction inspector, and not someone who" thinks" they know.
Originally Posted By: rwills This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
John, I do new construction inspections all the time and just recently had a customer call and ask me the same question because they wanted to back out. As an ex builder I look for mostly issues relating to specs or code though I won’t state codes in a report. As a home inspector, if I find something improperly done such as anchor bolts improperly spaced, incorrect sizing of header and/or support members, etc. I will recommend a Structural Engineer (PE) to evaluate it anyway. I would get a structural or code inspection off the bat. Then again, the builder could always agree to right any wrongs found.
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
As others are saying, you will need a good attorney, but not a real estate attorney. Good real estate attorneys are good at closing deals. You want the opposite.
You will want a good construction litigator. They will likely start with the contract. Most likely, your contract states something to the effect that the house will be built to plans, specifications, and local building codes. That means that all plans, specifications, etc. referred to in the contract ARE part of the contract. The builder's FAILURE to provide you with a FULL and COMPLETE contract may be enough to invalidate the contract based on the builder's own breach of said contract.
Originally Posted By: dbowers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
- if the inspector has any competence he should keep them in his pocket. We’re there to determine functionality. We’re not there to determine if Pella is better than Crestline, etc.
Although we say we're not a Code Inspector (and we're not) - We're there (On NEW CONSTRUCTION) to determine if the construction is functional and generally conforms to local standards & you'd better have some code knowledge (such as does local codes require a R-38 or ??? in the attic).
If local codes require a R-38 or R-42 insulation in the attic, and its there - most of us would consider it inappropriate to interject our OWN OPINION that its SUBSTANDARD unless it has R-50.
Originally Posted By: mkober This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
John,
Before you throw a lot of money at various attorneys, you need to shop for a home inspector with a STRONG quality assurance/construction background. Turn me loose in the house, and I will find a half dozen things that are non-conforming with the current County and/or National Residential Code (and, yes, I know we are not code inspectors). In the last 30+ years, I must have stopped and looked at a thousand places under construction, and believe me, the stuff I’ve seen is often scary. If the house in question is already sheet-rocked, the inspector’s job will be harder but still do-able. Start in the basement/crawl space–have him/her look for “butchered” framing members (plumbers in a hurry like to tear apart joists to run their supply and drain lines, rendering the joists–especially engineered members-- unable to perform their intended load-carrying function). If there are steel framing support members (center beam and columns), look for deficient welds (size and profile) and generally poor workmanship–most home builders aren’t steel fabricators, and it often shows. If there is a finished concrete floor exposed, check it for “true” with a ten-foot straight edge–the universal industry standard has been 1/8" tolerance in ten feet. The list goes on. And asking a home inspector to do a “thorough” job is not asking anyone to be unethical–just tell him/her you desire and will pay for the Comprehensive–Level III inspection instead of the usual Level I. If the same builder has other houses under construction in the area, take your camera to gather evidence of his substandard workmanship. Throw a big enough punch list at him, and he’ll be the one wanting to back out of the deal.
Originally Posted By: Vince Santos This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
A lot of times my clients ask me if I think the house is worth buying because of things discovered. Of course I am’m not there to tell them if they should or should not purchase the home. I have inspected homes that I would not purchase because the amount of problems found. But the problems were not a big deal to the buyer because they knew how to fix the things wrong and didn’t mind doing it. Now my point is, if a problem is found with the home it is up to the buyer to decide if the problems are things they don’t want to deal with. Can’t a buyer back out of a deal after the inspection? Does the inspection have to uncover a major problem before they are allowed to back out? I’m sure it’s not necessary to tear the house to shreds" in order to back out.
– Desire is half of life, indifference is half of death.
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I believe some people are expecting professional dealings with the builder … 'Oh, you don’t want to buy my POS house any more? No problem, I will find another sucker … er … buyer. Here is your deposit back."
In reality, and in the past two weeks, we've had two clients call willing to give their deposits back to the builder just to get out, and we are not talking about chump change here. 'Maybe I'll just not buy it and let the builder keep my $450,000 deposit.' 'If I have to, I'll let the builder get his F&$*ing $570,000"
Both times, Lois was able to talk them down to a calmer level and we did the inspections, and, while they (the client) was mad at the builder, the condos (both were condos) were not THAT bad. Bad, yes, but not THAT bad.
Originally Posted By: John Adams This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Is it true there is no inspector licensing in Michigan? My contract clearly states that the property must be inspected by a licensed inspector(s). If there is no licensing, how do I meet the terms of this contract?
