New home construction - foundation diagonal crack

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1

Originally Posted By: Kevin Lighty
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I’ve looked thru the posts and I have not found an answer to my concern so I am starting a new thread and requesting an expert opinion.


Our builder - Ryan Homes - has just begun construction of our dream home in Prince George's County, Maryland outside Washington, DC. After the main road running in front of the house was cut and I had an opportunity to see the natural grade of the lot in relation to the level of the road I expressed some concern to the builder (see pic). The site plan calls for the home to be constructed with a 2 foot downward sloping grade over the 90' distance from the road to the front of the home. This will require the builder to remove dirt from the front of the lot. Although the site plan with final grading information, calling for the sloping grade, has been approved by the county and a building permit issued I questioned the logic of this action. Some relatively minor backfilling of the natural grade would elevate the house above the level of the road and provide a natural slope away from the foundation. Additionally, this might allow for a walk out basement rather than the welled exit called for in the existing plans and a feature that we greatly desired. I was informed by the project supervisor that the engineering drawings for the installation of the septic system called for the flow from the house to the field at a specific angle and therefore would not permit a modification of this type to the site plan.
Shortly thereafter the foundation was excavated and the footers poured on June 4th (see dated photos).
Less than 4 days later we visited the site again to find the foundation walls poured and the forms removed, June 8th. Our visit today, June 19th has found the basement floor poured with drains and sumps in place and the backfilling completed. Though I am glad to see the rapid progress of our home I question if it is not too rapid. I have several concerns:

Will the slope leading to the front and side of the home, due to the grading lead to future water problems in the basement?

I noticed that there are, what appears to be, two sump holes in the poured concrete basement floor. only one other home in the sub-division has this same configuration (they are also slightly lower than street level) Is this normal or is it a precaution for an expected higher volume of water in proximity to our foundation?

Even with quick drying cement is less than ten days enough time for the foundation to cure before waterproofing and backfilling?

Of greatest concern:
The photos show several cracks that have been patched in the foundation walls. Two very long diagonal cracks running from the top of the foundation almost the complete length of the back and side walls converging at the base in the bottom corner and two other separate patches at the base on the front wall. There are several other areas where inconsistency can be clearly seen in the concrete, some patched others are not. Given the location and extent of these apparent defects I wonder about the structural soundness of the foundation and if the patched areas will lead to leaks after the foundation cures and ultimately shrinks slightly?

Any and all responses would be greatly appreciated.


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Originally Posted By: jhagarty
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Kevin:


The diagonal crack is a cold joint due to the foundation not being continuously poured from start to finish.

Concern may be structural but will primarily be a concern for water intrusion.

I would recommend requesting of the Builder to provide an SE evaluation of the foundation and give approval on the integrity prior to Framing. I would also request what type of water proofing and drainage measures have been implemented in the design of the foundation/grading.

--
Joseph Hagarty

HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com

Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865

HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.

3

Originally Posted By: dbowers
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I Grew up in a foundation family. Cold pour joints can be a structural or moisture problem in the future BUT the vast majority of them are not. Its a very frequently seen occurrance.


Since you obviously worry a lot - hire a competent inspector do do construction monitoring of your house. It will help you sleep better.

4

Originally Posted By: Mark Anderson
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http://www.askthebuilder.com/569_Backfilling_a_Foundation_Wall.shtml


any foundation wall should be waterproofed(NOT damproofed!) and backfilled with peastone/gravel....period!

http://www.bobvila.com/ArticleLibrary/Task/Inspecting/FoundationFailure.html

--
The Real reasons basements leak

5

Originally Posted By: Monte Lunde
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Concrete wall placed on June 8th, backfill finished by June 19th - 11 Day


Concrete will reach about 66% in 7 days, of the design strength and 100% at the 28 day break. Backfill against a concrete wall should not be started until the concrete is =< 80% this could have been reached by the 9th or 10th day.


(http://www.askthebuilder.com/569_Backfilling_a_Foundation_Wall.shtml ) There statement is wrong about concrete reaching 75% design strength in 28 days. It better reach 100% or under ACI Standards this concrete mix would be a failure. (UPDATE askthebuilder correct the typo mistakes in this article - thank me by E-mail)

The joint does look like a cold joint but to check if it is, ask the builder for a copy of the concrete patch tickets. If there is a ticket for the next day, it would make a strong case that the crack is a cold joint. I see asphalt based waterproofing in one of your pictures. I would not worry about this crack if it is a cold joint because of the waterproofing.

I don't have enough info on the grading issue.

--
Monte Lunde CCI, CCPM, CRI
Viking Construction Services Inc.

6

Originally Posted By: ccoombs
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Kevin


Structurally, cold joints won't be an issue if steel is provided.

As for the house being lower than the road, this could be a concern if site grading does not divert water away from the house.

Concrete typically has a 28 day strength. Most construction starts at 7 days after pour. However, the backfill should not be provided prior to the concrete meeting its design load. I also wouldn't want them using the equipment in one of the pictures to compact around the foundation. They should be using a small machine to compact the backfill.

I would also make sure a good waterproofing system/detail is used. just putting dirt back is not a good way to do things.

I would also suggest you get an HI or engineer to do site walks for your peace of mind.

Good luck!

--
Curtis

7

Originally Posted By: Mark Anderson
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One ‘Should’ worry about the crack if all they used was BS liquid tar…‘damproofing’. That stuff is applied as thin as a razor,doesnt last!

–
The Real reasons basements leak

8

Originally Posted By: Kevin Lighty
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Many thanks for your responses, I have checked the foundation plans and it does not call for the vertical steel rebar support that CCoombs and others have recommended in other posts in the case of a cold joint. Therefore I will follow the suggestions listed and request the Structural Engineer evaluation. I have looked though all of the posts and photos that refer to foundation concrete pours and cold joints. Most of these can be seen as a line that runs at a roughly consistent height along the basement wall that did not require additional patching or waterproofing.


As a novice, the extent of the cold joint lines and the fact that they both terminate in a bottom corner seems to be particularly disconcerting. However, as DBowers has observed, I do worry about the construction of the most significant investment I will probably ever make.
Based on our brief history with the builder so far - I belief my concern is justified.

I will be seeking the assistance of a local home inspector to monitor the progress and practices of the builder. Any recommendations of individuals in this area that provide this type of periodic monitoring would be very helpful.

Your continued interest and opinions are greatly appreciated and welcomed.

Best Regards

9

Originally Posted By: scieslewicz
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Mr. Lighty,


As the others have stated, cold pour joints are common in concrete. Most often (at least from my experience and opinion), they're caused by (usually) lazy concrete contractors. If the concrete is not vibrated while being poured, the concrete will separate causing the joint. In most cases, these joints are not an issue.

The only time that I recommend that a structural engineer evaluate them is when they are completely through the wall and there is substantial honeycombing. If it occurs in a garage wall and is visible on one side only I'll usually have the concrete contractor patch with portland cement.

The specifics for backfilling may be included in your plans. Usually, it occurs after framing has begun or may be done with the walls braced prior to the backfill. The plans should give details on how it is to be done.

Sounds like you have a sump pump crock and also an ejector pit (for a future bathroom) in the basement?

My suggestion would be to hire an inspector that specializes in new construction phase inspections. Again, my opinion but the footing, wall, prebackfill inspections (and also the rough framing) are the most important!!

Best wishes with your new home,
Sincerely,
Sue Cieslewicz/Municipal Bldg. Inspector, Home Inspector

10

Originally Posted By: lewens
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I believe I would have had the main beam and floor structure in place before backfilling. I’ve seen too many cracks from bobcats getting too close to the foundation wall.

–
Just my usual 12.5 cents


From The Great White North Eh?
NACHI-CAN
www.aciss-brant.com
www.certifiedadulttrainingservices.com/
11

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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jhagarty wrote:
Concern may be structural but will primarily be a concern for water intrusion.

I would recommend requesting of the Builder to provide an SE evaluation of the foundation and give approval on the integrity prior to Framing. I would also request what type of water proofing and drainage measures have been implemented in the design of the foundation/grading.

I agree ... get the designer of the house involved. They are the experts. HI's are primarily concerned with visual indications of when an expert is needed. Get an expert if you have a specific problem, not opinions from a home inspection board which may or may not be correct.

No one here is on-site looking at the potential problem ... no matter how many pictures are posted. I often do engineering follow up evaluations, and descriptions and pictures help, but do not give the whole story. It comes down to professional opinions based on observed conditions ... and there is NO substitute for looking at a potential problem up close and personal.

Just my opinion and 2-nickels ... ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)

--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
12

Originally Posted By: Monte Lunde
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Robert


I believe your statement "Just my opinion and 2-nickels" is wrong. It should be "Just my opinion and 2-quarters". You are sell your advice short. I also agree with your stated opinion, again.

--
Monte Lunde CCI, CCPM, CRI
Viking Construction Services Inc.

13

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Since I’m aware of NV Ryan homes I can tell you that almost all of their homes foundations have cold joints, including the NV Ryan home I owned. So do the homes built by Ryland, Renaissance, US Home, Jordan, Centex, Toll Bros., Winchester, Richmond, D. R. Horton, etc, etc. Few of the foundations can be poured in one load by the cement contractors there due to their size, and due to the wonderful amount of traffic you live in the trucks seldom arrive as scheduled.


In seven years of inspecting in that area, I never once found leakage or structural failure at a cold joint. Maybe I was just lucky. I found both at other areas of the foundations and basement walls, and many other issues, just never at a cold joint.

The best advice was given by Dan Bowers. Hire yourself a thorough, competent home inspector to monitor the construction of your home.

Slab on grade construction is by far the best for a home inspector.....Ahhhhhhhhhh, life in paradise!! ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif) ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif) ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)

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Originally Posted By: roconnor
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idea to hire your own home inspector to keep an eye on things during construction of a house (some builders and inspectors are overworked, and many quality issues just are not code violations). But I still think the cracking issue really should go back to the designer who sealed your plans for a professional opinion.


Kevin Lighty wrote:
Of greatest concern:
The photos show several cracks that have been patched in the foundation walls. Two very long diagonal cracks running from the top of the foundation almost the complete length of the back and side walls converging at the base in the bottom corner and two other separate patches at the base on the front wall. There are several other areas where inconsistency can be clearly seen in the concrete, some patched others are not. Given the location and extent of these apparent defects I wonder about the structural soundness of the foundation and if the patched areas will lead to leaks after the foundation cures and ultimately shrinks slightly?

Those just don't look like "normal" cracks to me from the pics, which is why I suggested getting the designer out to look at that. You could always try the HI route and see what he thinks being "up close and personal" ... which is really needed either way.

Just my opinion and 2-nickels ... ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)

--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
15

Originally Posted By: Kevin Lighty
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Again, many thanks for all of your input.


The project supervisor has responded to my inquiry about the cold joints. His explanation for the patches and change in the appearance of the concrete is that the company pouring the foundation simply received a different load. He contends the diagonal line in the foundation wall is simply a representation of slight differences in the appearance in the two batches. Additionally, the amount of time between pours was not long enough to classify as a cold joint and that there is no structural deficiency at the point where the batches meet. The explanation of the patches are that where the two batches join there was some honeycombing at he surface of the mold and these were patched with Portland cement.

The explanation sounds reasonable to me however any other comments would be welcome.

16

Originally Posted By: Monte Lunde
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Questions to Project Supervisor;


We are not talking about any change in appearance of concrete, we are talking about the joint and patch job on that joint.

The diagonal line was cause because the concrete was poured into the wall form instead of placed in uniform lifts and vibrated. Someone added water to the concrete mix when trying to place the concrete (See the slope of the joint) The concrete would never had this joint if it would have been vibrated and placed in uniform lifts. Lack of or no vibrating of the concrete is also why he had honeycombs to patch.

Cold Joint define as "Nonmoving joints developed in concrete elements to facilitate workable limits for placement". This is a cold joint but not a designed cold joint or a construction joint, contraction joint or a control joint.

I would not get that worried about the patch job.

--
Monte Lunde CCI, CCPM, CRI
Viking Construction Services Inc.

17

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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. I don’t know what your local code says about that. Common problem with deep basements that causes cracks that do not show up right away.


Again, you really need someone to look at that "up close and personal" to give you an opinion. Additional repairs may or may not really be needed.

--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

18

Originally Posted By: mcyr
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icon_smile.gif


I do believe from what I have seen in these photos, that I would consider an evaluation of performance on this contractor and go from there.


In order of precedence of the photos you submitted, I will comment in order.

Are those blotches suppose to be column footings? If they are I would have expected to see a well framed rectangular box.

I noticed there is a key way in the footings but no re-reinforcement steel. (dowels)

16" wide footing? meets the IRC.

4" thick footing? Does not meet code. At least that is what I can see.

8" foundation wall with a 4" brick shelf? Not much left!

Diagonal crack in the photo is very extensive and without the proper waterproofing on the exterior, would worry me. The premature backfill without the floor framing in place with the evidence of these pictures, would definitely worry me and surprised it sustained the backfill.

The angle of the cold joint tells me that they had poured previously a 6" to 8" slump while waiting for the last truck.

No vibration was used to consolidate the concrete due the fact of all the rat holes that had to be patched and including the cold joint. Good vibration at cold joint areas would indicate a very fine distinguishing line and slight color variation, but the bond would be well made.
This cold joint is all the way through the wall. Possible weakness could catch up in later days, months, or years.

One photo is showing excessive concrete spillage on the plumbing pipes that tell me a high slump concrete was used, and also random cracks from bond-outs in the floor also indicate the same.

Wire mesh is not visible on one of the bond outs. Was there wire mesh install?

The form work used appear to have been in bad shape per the pictures.
Appeared to be aluminum, but the tie holes show me that it must have been Simplex, Simons, or unlikely Advance. It is of a rapid tie system, so it would most likely be Simplex, but not sure. A western aluminum tie is much wider.

There is an OSHA requirement on commercial jobs that prevent you to install steel columns up until the concrete has attained 75% strength, which is normally achieved in 14 days. That would be and can happen if concrete is poured at a 4" slump or a water/cement ratio of no more that .35 lb's per pound of cement.

Because of the slump line indicated of these photos, this was impossible.
No vertical reinforcement shown. Concrete of most likely 2500 PSI. ?

I do not want to alarm you, but commenting as I see it, future problems are eminent.

Marcel

19

Originally Posted By: Kevin Lighty
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Our most recent visit to our homesite has been most enlightening. Take a look at the photos of the basement floor near the site of the foundation imperfection. Did the water come from the window above that has not yet been installed (we have had some very strong rainstorms lately)? Or from a leaking wall to floor joint?


I have already called a local NACHI certified inspector to visit the site and evaluate this and other questions. It will be interesting to see if his assessment corresponds with the builder's explaination.

Additionally, I know this is the structural area but take a look at the last three photos. I appears clear to me that these flexible insulated ducts are being crushed by the support straps nailed to the trusses. My builder tells me that their is no problem with this installation. What do you think?
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Originally Posted By: mcyr
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Hi Kevin icon_smile.gif


From the pictures; I would have to say that alot of rain forced by the wind would have created this problem, seeing that the concrete wall is not wet under that open window.
I would suspect more the joint that was patched at the wall/floor intersection, where more evidence of water wicking found it way up the wall at the heavier concentration of water. Have you had a lot of rain in the past few days that would explain water coming down the face of the exterior foundation? If so, what is the condition of the water proofing on the exterior of this wall and what is it?
What type of under drainage was installed?

The suspended flexible duct appears to be choked somewhat, but is deceaving, due the insulation wrap around the slinky flex duct. The surest way to tell is to feel the slincky inside with your hands to see if it has been deformed by the straps.

Hope this helps.

Marcel