One mad seller

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#1

Originally Posted By: bkelly1
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http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/1/100_5406.JPG ]



[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/1/100_5407.JPG ]



[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/1/100_5408.JPG ]


[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/1/100_5410.JPG ]


The story begins the realtors had worked out that the seller was only going to replace the dormer areas. That the rest of the roof looked good from the ground..



I arrived and the buyer was coming . I told her it was my opinion to replace the entire roof very, very soon. ( yesterday). There was a roofer next door and she went next door and asked him for an estimate......

Meanwhile the realtor came and said the buyer was going to fix the dormers b/c they needed replacing.....

Everyone left except me and the seller came home at 12:00 for dinner. She asked what I had found and I told her I was under contract with the buyer and couldn't really discuss it. She said that she just went next door and asked the roofer for an estimate on the dormers and he informed her that the buyer wanted the entire roof replaced. She told me all this and that is when the fun began.



She asked what in the world was I thinking the roof was only 10 years old! I said it was at the end of its life and needs replacing which is why I suggest further evaluation. The whole time she was shaking here head no. She asked if she would have to pay for it, and if they could back out of the deal. I felt I was getting in hot water and told her I could not give real estate advice..She then asked what else I had found. I told her I couldnt discuss it, to which she replied you just discussed the roof! I told her not by choice and that the realtors would probably get with her by the end of the day..I hadn't gone underneathe yet either! As I was leaving she was heading next door again to the roofer. I feel sure she was going to ask him if the entire roof has to be replaced or if it is only the dormers. If he says only the dormers, I am thinking of asking him to put it in writing and give it to the first time home buyers. Maybe he can throw in a six month warranty also! ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)

#2

Originally Posted By: dbowers
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Easily got another 6-7 years of life left - don’t I sound just like a listing agent. If there’s any slack, have the buyer provide these pictures to the appraiser, lender and insurance company - then get out of the way.

#3

Originally Posted By: lewens
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Definition


Pooched roof


see above

–
Just my usual 12.5 cents


From The Great White North Eh?
NACHI-CAN
www.aciss-brant.com
www.certifiedadulttrainingservices.com/
#4

Originally Posted By: rwand
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In similar circumstances I would tell the client that to replace portions/sections with a new roof is pointless only because the good sections which are not replaced leaves the house with two different aging sections. Economically speaking it is better to replace the whole roof so it ages equally and has a full warranty.


Cheers
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON

--
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905

http://www.raymondwand.ca
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (R.H.I.)

#5

Originally Posted By: dbowers
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. If you feel “Total Replacement” is best - thats your opinion. Nothing else to say. If your client does not agree with your opinion, tell them to get a 2nd opinion - BUT - if the seller or agent does not agree with your opinion - tough squat - thats MY opinion!

#6

Originally Posted By: John Bowman
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Second Opinion - I disagree with replacement of the roof.


Roof may or may not need replacement. Recommend evaluation by qualified roofing contractor.

Shingles show definite signs of reaching the end of their life expectancy and should be replaced immediately.

All roof structures should be examined and repaired as necessary after a complete tear off of old shingles and a complete physical and visual inspection of the roof is accomplished. In addition to the replacement of the shingles, some roof decking and framing replacement/repair may be deemed necessary by your contractor. Rake's ends and soffitt's normally show some sort of deterioration with shingles in this condition. Your roofing contractor can make this determination.

It is the opinion of this inspector that the whole roof may not need replacement.

![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif) ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif) ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)

#7

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
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I think it is out of place for inspectors to suggest an entire roof covering replacement, even if it is obvious such as in this case.


A roof covering such as the one depicted above is obviously in need of repair. I would mark it as in need of repair and refer the client to a professional roofing contractor for further evaluation, etc, etc. blah, blah, blah.

Why make this any more difficult than it has to be?

--
Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.

#8

Originally Posted By: bkelly1
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Report had pictures and was written as such.


The roof has deteriorated in many places. There are several areas that the backing is showing through, the ridge cap has deteriorated and is peeling. Many areas could not be walked on b/c the shingles are cupped, and raised in many places. Possible water intrusion in several places. Inspector recommends evaluation by roofing company and repair as recommended. Verify with owner and roofing contractor there are no current leaks and repair and posssible replacement of many or all areas.


Verbally
The buyer was there, first time buyers very young and just enough to buy the house. They asked when could it start to leak? Answer. It would not suprise me if it were not leaking now, that you could call me tommorrow and it could be leaking. It is my opinion it needs replaced soon.

It is my opion I am not making it harder than it is. These buyers may have taken a chance if I did not tell them it needed to be replaced. For me and my insurance I felt it was imperative to tell them since they did not know what to expect in a roof, much less an entire house.

It was in my buyers best interest to do as such.

#9

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
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bkelly1 wrote:
It is my opion I am not making it harder than it is.


My statement was not directed at you Ben, it was a general statement. It really was more directed at John's second opinion.

I think your write up and verbal statement to the client are good.

--
Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.
#10

Originally Posted By: John Bowman
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jonofrey wrote:
bkelly1 wrote:
It is my opion I am not making it harder than it is.


My statement was not directed at you Ben, it was a general statement. It really was more directed at John's second opinion.

I think your write up and verbal statement to the client are good.


John O.

I agree with you. My posting was not a suggestion of a write up for a report. I was simply trying to show the difference between what was written in the first post of Ben's and just what a second opinion may have been in response to Ben's opinion. (Huh!!! - What in the hell did I just say) ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)

Basically, I read Ben's original post meaning that he recommended total replacement of the roof. I was trying to point out that the entire roof may not need replacement, only the shingles. Not the decking, soffitts, trussess, etc. The term roof encompasses all of the roof systems or make-up.

The actual write-up Ben had in his report looks fine except the first line. I did not see any part of the roof deteriorated. I did see the shingles that had deteriorated (See roof caps in picture). JMO

Maybe I'm being too picky in the use of the written word.
#11

Originally Posted By: lkage
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jbowman wrote:
The term roof encompasses all of the roof systems or make-up.


I agree.

--
"I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him."
Galileo Galilei
#12

Originally Posted By: bkelly1
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roof in “laymen’s” terms means shingles. Most realtors, homebuyers, and probably roofers understand this also. At least in my area.

#13

Originally Posted By: dbowers
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by a specialist, BUT sometimes I recommend replacement of … something.


I've been doing this for over 26 years and a very long time ago, I came to realize that although we are generalists - I am an EXPERT in my field. My field is inspecting residential & commercial buildings AND their assorted components. I found that quite often I was explaining codes or how to repair things ... to the supposedly specialists. I also came to realize that if I went to the doctor and he didn't have enough balls or guts to make a stand and tell his patients what he felt was the most prudent course of action was - but referred them up the hall to someone else all the time - he or she wasn't worth squat as a doctor. Same with us!!

#14

Originally Posted By: lkage
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bkelly1 wrote:
roof in "laymen's" terms means shingles. Most realtors, homebuyers, and probably roofers understand this also. At least in my area.


Probably true here too...and, for me, it's about wanting to educate to help keep things more clear and specific.

--
"I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him."
Galileo Galilei
#15

Originally Posted By: lewens
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I don’t understand the discussion at all. The roof, by anybody’s definition, is in dire need of recovering. End of story. The report should read" the roof covering should be replaced as soon as possible."

–
Just my usual 12.5 cents


From The Great White North Eh?
NACHI-CAN
www.aciss-brant.com
www.certifiedadulttrainingservices.com/
#16

Originally Posted By: dbowers
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Larry -


There it is. The tires are worn out but holding air. Its time for replacement.

#17

Originally Posted By: Leo Firth
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My question is, if the roof is only 10 years old, why the is the roof in such poor condition. I saw only one vent in the pictures and it looked like a kitchen or bath vent. It appears that the roof is being cooked from the back side from excessive heat. There is more to this than appears. The shingles are not aging in normal fashion. If the seller are the ones that had the roof installed, they may have some paper work on Mfg of the shingles and contractor. If the roof is vented correctly, it may be a bad batch of shingles. I can’t tell by the pics, is the roof a 20 or 30 year comp?


The roofing contractor will only warranty the roof for correct instalation and from leaking. The life of the shingle will fall on the roofing Mfg. Hope this helps.


Leo

#18

Originally Posted By: sspradling
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I’m with you, Ben. That roof (shingles for sure, maybe sheathing in spots, probably flashing boots, etc.) No roofer is going to lay another layer on that and be able to offer any warranty.


Couple more, Dan, couple more and you're over the top.
Stu

#19

Originally Posted By: apfaff
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I highly doubt the seller was accurate in statement of 10 yrs old, but it is hardly the point. I would have told the buyer it will need replacement. I still recommend further evaluation to back it up.

#20

Originally Posted By: dspencer
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dbowers wrote:
Everybody has their own opinion and their own style of writing. Sometimes I recommend further evaluation by a specialist, BUT sometimes I recommend replacement of ........ something.

I've been doing this for over 26 years and a very long time ago, I came to realize that although we are generalists - I am an EXPERT in my field. My field is inspecting residential & commercial buildings AND their assorted components. I found that quite often I was explaining codes or how to repair things ... to the supposedly specialists. I also came to realize that if I went to the doctor and he didn't have enough balls or guts to make a stand and tell his patients what he felt was the most prudent course of action was - but referred them up the hall to someone else all the time - he or she wasn't worth squat as a doctor. Same with us!!


Ditto ![icon_exclaim.gif](upload://kW92MliyHA8ygoXI0UsgtBSn4ZO.gif) ![icon_exclaim.gif](upload://kW92MliyHA8ygoXI0UsgtBSn4ZO.gif) ![icon_exclaim.gif](upload://kW92MliyHA8ygoXI0UsgtBSn4ZO.gif) ![icon_exclaim.gif](upload://kW92MliyHA8ygoXI0UsgtBSn4ZO.gif) ![icon_exclaim.gif](upload://kW92MliyHA8ygoXI0UsgtBSn4ZO.gif)