Originally Posted By: Joe Tedesco
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Joe Tedesco
Originally Posted By: gsutterfield
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Joe
Assuming that is 12-3 or 14-3 how in the hell did they get the wire nuts on and close up the box ??? At least they didn't hide it under the insulation 
Originally Posted By: lfranklin
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Just how many wires are in them boxes? Looks as if they are short one and need to add it.
How many wires can be in a box Just a general rule for single gang box
Originally Posted By: Joe Tedesco
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Wirenuts (Wire Connectors) what are they?
I'll bet the installer here was very careful and probably used crimp type connectors!
For Box Fill:
Look here for the calculator that can be used to answer the question.
http://wescalc.wescodirect.com/
PS: They sell this for the Laptop and PDA contact them.
See Table 370-16(A) in the 1999 NEC, and Table 314.16(A) in the 2002 NEC.
NOTE: Table (B) is for Nonmetallic Boxes, so be careful when determining box fill.
http://wescalc.wescodirect.com/
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Joe Tedesco
Originally Posted By: gsutterfield
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Joe
I mentioned wirenuts [ wire connectors ] because it was obvious from the picture care was not one of his priorities 
Originally Posted By: Joe DiGiacomo
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Also, aren’t the wires to be fastened fast 12" or so from a box?
Originally Posted By: JIM WALKER
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Maybe they could put i big tie wrap around it to help bring it to code.LOL
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JIM WALKER
Tampa FL.
ELECTRICJIMW@AOL.COM
Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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Bet ya the panel does not have this many home runs.
Staple within 8" unless a box clamp is used then 12".
Well at least they used two boxes for the two circuits so as not to create paralled conductors.
Mike P.
Originally Posted By: wpedley
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Hi guys and gals,
This condition is very typical for the farm houses of Pa.
The only thing you have to worry about is replacing the box
every year due to melting problems....must be REDNECKS!!!!!LOL LOL
B Pedley
Originally Posted By: rpalac
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WoW… How did they manage to get the cover on?
NEC Article 314.16 Number of conductors in Outlet,Device and Junction Boxes.
Boxes and conduits bodies shall be of sufficient size to provide free space for all enclosed conductors. In no case shall the volume of the box as calculated in 314.16(a), be less than the fill calculation as calculated in 314.16(b).....................
the table which shows the different box dimensions is very clear:
(this is a 4x4x1-1/4 box) maximum conductors
#14 wire (9) the grounds are counted as one conductor(314.16(b-5).
#12 wire ( " " " " "
since one box has 11 wires and the other 8 that I can see....there's not a chance
Also the fact as was pointed out that the wires need to be fastened within 12" of the box and at increments as in Article 320.23(In accessible Attic), 334.23(In Accessible Attic), 334.30(Securing and Supporting), and 330.4(d) (joist penetrations)
One over site that comes to mind even if you had a larger box or extension ring very often the wires are not left long enough by code to work on. They must be six inches longer then the face edge of the box. Article 300.14 ( Length of Free Conductors)
All that said, technical or not even if it were in a 12x12x12 can this probably would be improper because it is more than likely one circuit maybe two and the load calculation is probably way out of kilter. (Article 210)
That's my back ground.
Great picture!
So what did you do as a reply for the inspection......?
Bob
Originally Posted By: JIM WALKER
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If it was 11 pieces of 14-2 the cubes would be 11x2=22
22 x 2 cu per wire =44 plus 2 for grd =46 cu inch box
still shaking my head .Maybe they all went under i big blue wire nut.
What size hammer to get them in the box?
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JIM WALKER
Tampa FL.
ELECTRICJIMW@AOL.COM
Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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Jim
I counted 14 14-2. Better add another 12 cubes.
No big deal. When I worked for "this" EC, for 1 1/2 months, and was asked why I had to fix what his most experienced guy did.
"8" 12-2wg going into a single (18.0cu in) box. BTW it was going to be covered (hidden) by the floor.
16 X 2.25 + 2.25. Do the math.
Mike P.
Originally Posted By: JIM WALKER
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Mike i would have left that company real fast too.I just love it when a guy says im only over by — wires.I then ask him what it will cost us to fix it if the inspectors catches it, and inspectors are sharp at this.
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JIM WALKER
Tampa FL.
ELECTRICJIMW@AOL.COM
Originally Posted By: rking
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Boy, that sure gives another meaning to “Octopus plug” even if the ‘box’ is being used as a router for the wires instead of a plug.
Easy call for an HI though "I strongly recommend that a qualified electrician be called to further evaluate the attic wiring"
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Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large
Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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Robert
No offense meant. "I strongly recommend".
If you did not "strongly recommend" would you be leaving yourself open to those things that you "just" recommended?
Mike P.
Originally Posted By: rking
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Actually Mike I never really thought about it. But it is a good point.
I just checked through all of my recent reports to see if I had actually used that term and luckily I have not.
We are lucky up here in Canada in that litigation cases pale in comparison to what you all have to deal with in the U.S. of A.
But......... thanks for looking out for me!
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Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large