Persecution of NACHI-OAHI Members for use of CHI

(Nick Gromicko, CMI) #21

I see you used the word persecuted, not prosecuted. How are NACHI members being persecuted? We have a law firm on retainer in Canada and I've been itching to get into the ring lately. Maybe this is my opening bell? No one can stop certified home inspectors like NACHI members from saying they are certified home inspectors. Can you give me more info on what you mean by "persecuted?"

(Raymond E. Wand) #22

Nick

They are being persecuted because of their affiliation with NACHI. Take my example. I have had the DPPC file complaints against me accusing me of practicing home inspections while retired in OAHI. The problem is that I am also an member in NACHI, ASHI and CFIHI, and even OAHI cannot stop me from practicing while a member of other associations. Further I am entitled to use RHI because my name is in the Registry, and as stated in the underlying legislation PR 158.

I would also suggest the proof of intent and actions as demonstrated by Mr. Lloyd and his comments as published not once but twice in the Home Inspector Newsletter published by OAHI. Thus far I have not been prosecuted because OAHI has not substantiated all but two complaints. The 5 other complaints are based on allegations without any substantiating evidence to the contrary. Mr. Lloyd is also on record as using his office to manipulate the by-laws as they are written. That includes the ability of his committee to do condone it, and the obvious approval of the BOD of which he is Vice President as well as Chair of the DPPC and executive director on the CAHPI BOD. It also appears Mr. Lloyd through abuse of his office has demonstrated amply his bias, vexhatious actions. He has demonstrated through his posts what outcome has been decided. I cannot believe for one minute OAHI has any intention of acting with due process or to the extent of the by-laws as they are written. After all they accused me of not responding to their complaints within 10 days, even though I did reply within the time frame. They seem to have acted prematurely and with bias on that one.

Also more information has come to light about statements the Ombudsman made in a room full of members of which witnesses have come forward and stated that the Ombudsman of OAHI made a statement to the following, "Someone should pick up a gun and shoot Mr. Wand." I know I am not liked but some but OAHI certainly likes to permit threats and intimidation.

Thanks Nick for your interest.

(Todd W. Flaro) #23

Hi Guys,
The one thing that really erks me is that instead of promoting all home inspectors and our industry, everyone is only promoting thier own. Who the hell cares what you call yourselves. As long as you can back it up. ( NACHI Member ) Certified home inspector. I think many orgonizations are just being selfish and its not right. What makes anyone better than me.
Nick I think its time to let the dogs loose on the rest.
Todd Flaro
Accurate Home Inspection

(Claude Lawrenson) #24

Roy as a point of clarification - I did not state that " Claude says OAHI can sue for Damages well Roy is ready". I was quoting from two reference sources. I am not in a position to decide on any "legal" matters.

Certainly I have also fallen victim to having an opinion, and OAHI felt they had the right to remove me from my position of chair of a committee. It is a real unfortunate way to treat members and volunteers. Do as we say or else, one is not entitled to freedom of speech. Sound familair? It is sort of the same way the southwestern (OAHI) members have felt in a few recent decision handed down by the board.

We have seen far too often the treatment of those that speak out or offer a different opinion.

(Raymond E. Wand) #25

Claude

OAHI and its management has a lot to account for! Now members must go to HQ to view the financial statements, and minutes of meetings! The only problem is that people who live outside of Toronto will not be able to go and view because of travel time, traffic, and parking. Also please consider the following:

What I don't understand, is how that can possibly excuse them from "publishing" to the the members the year end audited financials. Similarly, this is the case with the Annual Meeting Minutes. You can not be forced to attend an annual meeting to review these, especially if you are to make an informed "proxy" vote...again, it defies logic!

GM does tell Ford what they're up to...it's called the Annual Report and it's available to ALL investors AND the public at large...not to mention their web site and every auto & financial commentator around!

Members have right to see what is what and not have road blocks thrown up in their paths. OAHI did not even inform the membership to my knowledge where the records could be seen. Now it comes out via the CAFE of which few members participate.

Its unfortunate Claude that you through your efforts to educate all of us have become the latest victim of the zealots within OAHI for expressing your God given rights to do so. OAHI has no intention of honouring the Charter or playing by its own by-laws. It is obvious some directors and committees feel they are above reproach.

(Roy D. Cooke, Sr) #26

I am sure we can point to many who have just given up and Moved on Like me and others who wish to see this fixed Like Claude and Raymond .
OAHI is doomed as far as I feel if they continue on with this self destruct way of treating those who have worked hard for home Inspectors every where.
I am for all homeinspectors and can only See NACHI as the association that is trying to help every one .
NACHI is not a secret society every thing is in the open .
They seldom ever remove any one and have an open attitude with all .
This is not happening with OAHI or CAHPI they remove free thinkers from the associations and from their BBs.
They continue to Prove they should not be trusted in any way .

Roy Cooke... NACHI is the one for all Home Inspectors every where

(Roy D. Cooke, Sr) #27

I care Big time just relax for a little bit and CAHPI will bring in their ways of doing things and you and all non CAHPI members will be left out .
Having been in this industry and on the Committees of PACHI,OAHI and NACHI I have gained much information and do know many of the directors of the associations and how they operate.

Roy Cooke A proud NACHI member
.

(Roy D. Cooke, Sr) #28

We are so lucky to Have the Famous Editor of The Canadian Home Inspector .
He is also an Armature Home Inspector 8 years still an associate .
He is a professional Spy and does manage to find out a lot of information on the NACHI site unfortunately he manages to be like the Pink panther and screw it up all the time .
Today he has visited the NACHI site many times here are a couple below
Thats OK he has the Directors of OAHI fooled they think he is smart .

11:14 AM I see Dave Bottoms is
Looking again
Viewing Forum
Special Discounts for NACHI Members

11:33 AM And againViewing Forum
Hardware, Software & Publications

12:54 PM And againViewing Forum
Education

Keep up the good work Dave Have a great Thanks Giving I won't be thinking of you .
Roy Cooke.. A Happy NACHI CHI......CMI.. RHI..CAHPI-ON

(Vern Mitchinson, CCHI CMI) #29

I believe the whole saying is
Don't go away mad, just go away!

(Nick Gromicko, CMI) #30

Ray, I think what you are saying is that another private association you belong to is treating you poorly, yes?

There is nothing I can do for you.

Trade associations, especially those in the U.S. who are protected by the first amendment, have a license to kill, almost. Associations are not governing bodies, even though it appears that some inspection associations in Canada like to pretend they are. Anyway, associations are not government entities, they are private parties. They have no obligation to treat you fairly. In the U.S., associations enjoy so much protection that they can even be racist. There are many associations in the U.S. that won't let me join because I am the wrong skin color (white). A private association, like the home inspection associations in Canada are not governement agencies, they are not even subject to the same laws that govern for-profit companies, and they have no duty to be nice or fair. Don't like it?... leave.

I wish I could have been more help, but this is as you stated, a case of persecution, not prosecution.

I don't understand why anyone would insist on staying at a party that didn't invite you and doesn't want you anyway. I will even go as far as saying that any member who insists on being in a private association that doesn't want them, is acting just as poorly as the association.

(Raymond E. Wand) #31

Nick,

You are correct. OAHI is registered as a non-profit body, and members have no share capital. In the end the reason OAHI is in the state it is is because it reports to itself. It has no external review by any government. This is why it gets away with what it does. However as we all know just because it reports to itself it does not mean it is not answerable for foibles done through bad governance, standard of care, et cetera. It is only harming itself in its attitudes and actions, and is responsible for its own demise. It must also prove it has juridiction under the by-laws to enact what it feels is necessary. It does not mean their actions have any weight in light of the fact the by-laws do not permit them to do what they can think they can or get away with, but the buck in the end stops with the courts because PR 158 permits that right to petition the courts.

Thanks Nick for your opinions.

(Nick Gromicko, CMI) #32

If it is any consolation... NACHI wants you. :D You are always welcome here.

(Raymond E. Wand) #33

:) :) :) Thanks, I knew that, but its nice to hear it again! :)

Everybody loves Raymond. ... well not everyone. ;)

Regards,

(Raymond E. Wand) #34

Well my access to the OAHI CAFE was short lived.

After just coming off a 90 day suspension, which OAHI never replied to I have now been suspended again. Seemingly for asking the wrong questions, pointing out the by-laws, or because I have posted material from the OAHI site, which others are permitted to do and have, both by members and the BOD.

OAHI Knowledge Cafe

Welcome to the Knowledge Cafe.
*Raymond.Wand Your Forum Access has been suspended until 11/4/2006 *

Seeing as OAHI has no intention of following the rules and the by-laws and seeing as the Chair of the DPPC has made unwarranted, unfounded, erroneous statements in support of his authority I am forced to defend myself by the only means available to me.

To date, I have not had the courtesy of a reply to my filed APPEAL. Nor have I ever rec'd a reply with my concerns about earlier suspensions, contrary to the rules in the by-law and by the Committee who oversees the CAFE. %between%

(Roy D. Cooke, Sr) #35

Gee why am I not surprised.
OAHI has never ever told the membership about the huge amount they spent fighting me and just to think if they had of just said I am sorry and followed the rules they could have saved so much money.

5 OAHI directors have told out right lies that I know of .

I am surprised that more members have not spoken up openly instead of sending me confidential letters acknowledging that many know what is going on and are just afraid to speak up .
I can understand why many do not renew but wonder why they do not try and make this a better association by voicing their openion.
Intimidation is strong and alive at OAHI .

Roy Cooke ... RHI
.

(Raymond E. Wand) #36

[FONT=Arial]Mr. Wand[/FONT]

 [FONT=Arial]As of October 5, 2006 12:01 a.m. you have been suspended for 30 days effective immediately and commence until November 4, 2006. [/FONT]



 [FONT=Arial]The new policy [/FONT]****[FONT=Arial]7.10 Membership Forums (technical and general) Required Protocol[/FONT]****



 [FONT=Arial]Under the final paragraph it states[/FONT]

 [FONT=Arial]"any violation to the Cafe (Forum) rules, or posts that in the opinion of the Cafe Monitor are improper will result in the immediate suspension from the Cafe.  First offence will be 30 days, second offence will be 90 days, and all subsequent offences will be 1 year".[/FONT]



 [FONT=Arial]When you continue to use poor judgement in posting information on the NACHI forum site, your actions are unprofessional and disrespectful. [/FONT][FONT=Arial] [/FONT][FONT=Arial]Please read the following you will find that they[/FONT][FONT=Arial] all apply to your actions.[/FONT]



 [FONT=Arial]7.10 Policy [/FONT]

 [FONT=Arial]        #2 (b)[/FONT]

 [FONT=Arial]        #2 (e)[/FONT]

 [FONT=Arial]        #2 (f)[/FONT]

 [FONT=Arial]        #3 (b)[/FONT]

 [FONT=Arial]        #3 (c)[/FONT]

 [FONT=Arial]        #3 (q)[/FONT]



 [FONT=Arial]Sincerely,[/FONT]



 [FONT=Arial]Forum Committee[/FONT]
(Raymond E. Wand) #37

Now... for what reason do you really think I was suspended for?

Could it be for posting posts from the CAFE to the NACHI forum showing how OAHI bends the rules?

Or

Could it be because I have asked questions about the finances and pointed out the lapse in the by-laws?

Or

Because as displayed by Tom Lloyds post OAHI the BOD and the DPPC have no intention of playing fairly regardless of he circumstances.

I am sorry but Claude you have a big problem in regards to OAHI being a signatory of CAHPI. OAHI repeatedly has shown it has no interest in following the rules and by exhibiting these posts it is quite apparent. Anyone aligned with Nachi in Ontario who seeks National Certification has no assurance whatsoever you will be treated fairly by OAHI who will oversee discipline of NACHI members who are Nationally Certified.

(Raymond E. Wand) #38

[FONT=Arial]7.10 Policy [/FONT]

 [FONT=Arial]        #2 (b)[/FONT]

 [FONT=Arial]        #2 (e)[/FONT]

 [FONT=Arial]        #2 (f)[/FONT]

 [FONT=Arial]        #3 (b)[/FONT]

 [FONT=Arial]        #3 (c)[/FONT]

 [FONT=Arial]        #3 (q)

Okay let me review the allegations OAHI has levelled. Here below are the pertinent sections of the Forum Rules.

7.10 **[/FONT][FONT=Arial]Membership Forums (technical and general) Required Protocol[/FONT]**[FONT=Arial]
**2. The OAHI Membership Forums are a membership privilege (not a right) extended to every individual in the OAHI membership who is in good standing.

b) The purpose of the Forum shall be to foster communication among OAHI members regarding the home inspection profession and the Association business.

e) OAHI does not officially respond to issues raised on the Forums. If you have an issue, concern or complaint regarding an OAHI member, policy, BOD or committee decision you should follow the proper procedures laid out in the OAHI bylaws.

f) All discussions will consist of appropriate language and shall not be slanderous, degrading or mean in spirit.

  1. Access to the forums is limited to the OAHI MEMBERS in good standing who agree to abide by the following forum Rules for Users Agreement:

b) Respect other Users on the OAHI Membership Forum. You may
express yourself, but not to injure harm or damage others. Users are
expected to exercise professionalism, common sense and courtesy in
the message transmitted over the OAHI Forums.

c) OAHI Membership Forums shall not be used to libel, slander, defame
or disparage a member or candidate of OAHI or any other person,
company or organization.

g) Use of the OAHI Forum for illegal activities is prohibited, including
illegal drugs, gambling, pornography, prostitution, child pornography,
robbery, spreading computer viruses, entering private computer
discussion boards, soft wear infringement, trafficking in credit card
codes, or other crimes.

Gee I can't see anywhere as provided by OAHI were I have breached those rules. You can see my post were quite innocuous.

Somebody needs to brush up on the rules, these rules do not even apply to what I have supposedly done. Duh!

**[/FONT]

(Raymond E. Wand) #39

The following people will have charges filed by me through the DPPC for trumped up charges and for knowingly allowing the by-laws to be breached and acting outside their capacity as the PR committee. They are not enacted anywhere in the by-laws to carry out any form of suspensions and to deny the right of appeal.There reasons for suspension are not remotely related to the suspension as they allude to

Public Relations

Mandate: To develop and implement goodwill with the public and outside organizations to further the objects of the Association.
Gerry Quackenbush , Chair
Wendy Cooke, Co-Chair
Brian Daley
Brad Durant
Enio Ferri
Glenn Gogal
Michael Greenberg
Robert Hermann
Edward Homonylo
Elio Mazzolin
Lori Summerfield

Dave Thornham

(Roy D. Cooke, Sr) #40

Sorry My charge went in before you .
I should have my charge heard first . Two years and waiting they must be busy Roy