I have posted the following challenge on the Canuck forum. Perhaps this may be of interest to Canadian NACHI members too. This is based on my own personal viewpoint.
Perhaps to be fair about this - what we on the Canuck forum need to do is see how long we can go without mentioning the word NACHI, and not coming up with any derogratory post respecting them or their members. When you bad mouth someone or another organization you are damaging yourself and your own organization.
They seem to reflect too far back into the past, and keep dragging up old issues. In all fairness, I have noted very few if any, comments respecting bad mouthing them. It often seems that the posts that continue to insite such flaming remarks seems to be by the posts of 2 specific individuals. Certainly we can prove to be leaders in our professional conduct. I would like to see us move on and get past the heated battles of the past.
Claude
I think this is a very good idea and should go a long way in forwarding relations between the two associations in this province. I do not and will not demean the members of OAHI or CAHPI. I do have an issue with some of the things I have read regarding what is being said about my association is regards to our qualifications. There are, I am sure, quite a few members of OAHI that have also joined NACHI. For me it just good business sense to belong to NACHI as I do not see the benefit of belonging to OAHI. The rhetoric expressed on this message board, and I am sure on the OAHI cafe and the Canuck forum, do no one any good and only foster ill feelings between the associations. Until NACHI is recognized by CAHPI as equals along with OAHI the bickering will go on. As I have said many times I don’t have an issue with the National Certification only with the way it appears to be administrated. We are not being dealt with fairly and until this happens, and full disclosure is forthcoming, we will be at loggerheads.
Larry
Claude
Well I agree with your sentiments, there remain some very serious issues. They are in my opinion the following:
The issue with discipline under which Nachi members will beholden. It has already been established that Nachi members who sign onto the National will be expected to conduct their inspections under the CAHPI SOP/COE. However there does remain the issue with NACHI members being disciplined in Ontario by OAHI. To my knowledge this very important issue has not been properly discussed and appears to have serious ramifications because of what is going on in Ontario.
The issue with regard to the whole National not being accredited with the requirements of CAN P9 and how the National was sold having claimed to comply with or meeting CAN P9 requirements.
The issue with regards to CAHPI and OAHI spokespeople and surrogates making misleading and unfounded allegations about a competing association and other members. There is this issue about Self Regulation and what it is doing and why it is doing it. As a full participant of the National OAHI must ensure it is acting within the confines of the by-laws and standards of care, this does not appear to be the case. OAHI resources have been used to make unfounded statements about a competing association. This goes back to the ability of a self regulating body to regulate itself. As long as these issues remain unresolved in my opinion OAHI is no position to dictate anything to anybody, and particularly its apparent inability to police itself at the management level, vis-à-vis CAHPI and the National.
Hopefully you can appreciate how these issues and other concerns dovetail into the National and what it is suppose to represent and be.
I can appreciate all the work you and others have put into this project I am still reserved to the opinion that licencing is the only effective solution to do away with poor governance and abuse of powers and conflicts of interest.
I am sure others may agree, disagree or have their own opinions.
"Perhaps to be fair about this - what we on the Canuck forum need to do is see how long we can go without mentioning the word NACHI, and not coming up with any derogratory post respecting them or their members. When you bad mouth someone or another organization you are damaging yourself and your own organization."
BRAVO! Congratulations Claude for taking the first step. This may not be the olive branch but it appears to be at least a leaf from same. Perhaps, if the stockade gates can be openned just a little bit those inside will see that N.A.C.H.I. members aren’t adorned with horns and spiked tails!:mrgreen: ****
Good to see this challange, I recently bacame a member of Nachi and noticed what in my opinion looks like fear from some of its members on the various forums. My first formal introduction into this industry was in January of 06 when I attended a Cahpi conference in RedDeer Canada. I never noticed any animosity on their part to “outsiders”. Mind you every organization thinks theirs is the best.
When I came across Nachi on the Net and eventually became a member I immediately sensed a division between CAHPI and their push to National certification from some of you all. I have determined that some people in my opinion (for what it is worth) are afraid Cahpi and its push for certification will force them to make changes they don’t want to be forced into. For some perhaps they feel their business is not up to snuff and the NC will require them to get more training, if so they probally need it. For others they may just be angery that it wasn’t their idea.
One thing is for sure, if the Home Inspection industry is to grow in popularity it needs to set a minimum standard. If Joe public thinks that just anyone can legally do an inspection without any training it will definately hurt the industry. I am grateful for the discussion and look forward to an industry minimum standard. Too many people I have talked to are telling me what their inspector missed and it is coming back to bite us all.
I better sign off before you fall asleep.
Aulden
Aulden no one is afraid of the National and certification to improve the industry. What is the concern is the manner in which the National was carried out, and enacted, and that special interests and politics hi-jacked the process.
For the record until NACHI and a few members started revealing info and squawking, CAHPI was a power unto itself. Now due to info being disseminated thanks to the open forum of NACHI the attitude seems to be changing.
As long as there is no licencing and only self regulation you will not have acramony in the industry because it is voluntary. Without sufficent numbers of people to sign onto the National it will be a dead duck in the water. Thus far only 100 people took up the offer for Certification. As of this point in time there has been no further mention of any further Certification dates.
Also anyone in Ontario who is a NACHI member should be very concerned about answering to OAHI. OAHI has demonstrated as part of CAHPI that it has no interest in playing fair or allowing other memberships it deems to be beneath it.
Well, I really never bashed Canadian associations, mostly because I was tricked into believing they had much harder entrance requirements and continuing education requirements than NACHI. Like a dummy… I never really checked until recently. I say I was “tricked” into believing this myth because I received so much bashing from the big wigs of the other Canadian associations about NACHI’s entrance requirements: http://www.nachi.org/rigorous2006.htm and 24 hours per year of continuing education… that I just assumed (like the jack a$s I am) that the other Canadian associations required much, much, more… to be bashing NACHI so hard.
Come to find out… it was just a trick, and that the other Canadian associations have far weaker entrance requirements and far less continuing education requirements.
So for me, although I was a little upset about being a victim of this trick, I’m fine with other Canadian associations.
I probably would have gone on forever thinking that if the big wigs in the other Canadian associations are bashing us, they must be really tough… only a reporter called and asked how NACHI’s entrance requirements http://www.nachi.org/rigorous2006.htm and 24 hours per year continuing education compared to another association’s based in Canada… which of course forced me to research it.
Like a fool, at about the same time, I was talking with Gerry Beaumont on the phone, discussing how we are going to front-end his new plumbing and manufactured/mobile homes courses to make them additional membership requirements and I was using the argument that we had to catch the Canadian associations with regard to entrance requirements (we long ago surpassed our American associations). Now we know it was all just a big lie camouflaged by stones being thrown from a very glass house.
Well, anyway… we are still planning to add the new courses to our http://www.nachi.org/membership.htm despite having the most entrance requirements of any association in the U.S. or Canada… and John and I have been in discussion (what with all the new online courses available these days) over raising our continuing education hours to 30 per year… 3 times what the associations in Canada require… year after year. Think about how much better educated that makes a NACHI member in 5 years (100 extra CE hours!). It adds up folks.
With all NACHI’s entrance requirements, continuing education offerings, exams, quizzes, member benefits, actual events, classroom training, success tools, vendor deals, free stuff, etc… it is getting pretty hard to NACHI bash unless you are willing to lie.
From what I can tell, the other Canadian associations are in last place in every quantifiable category except for ethics (Scumbag NAHI has the worst COE). It is a bit silly to bash the team in first place… when you are in last place… no?
As trade associations go, and I mean all trade associations, not just inspection associations… I really don’t think any other comes even close to NACHI. I am becoming convinced that NACHI is one of the best, if not the best professional trade association that ever existed in all of human history.
I do hope Bill also lives up to his word of passing information on the CMHC and does the same with NICK’s above two post’s . Roy Cooke
Re: Canadian reporter asking about associations. Help, I need the facts.
Fellow Canadian Inspectors, here is a message from Bill that he has asked me, and given authorization post to the NACHI forum.
Claude:
I would like to have this response of mine put on the NACHI forum and
you are welcome to say it’s directly from me but I’m not allowed to post
messages to the NACHI Forum.
Bill
We were rebuffed totally and Mr. Gromicko advised his followers to ignore the Certification Program and ‘not waste their money.’ The olive branch has been extended by CAHPI in the past and was refused.
You are correct that the powers that be are watching CAHPI. In fact, we have copied all correspondence between us and NACHI to the government agencies so they are very aware that we have tried to be fair.
Many months ago I invited NACHI to submit some information for Equivalency Evaluation by the National Certification Authority. Had NACHI complied, you and all NACHI members would now have much more involvement in the process. Unfortunately, Nick decided not to cooperate, thereby depriving his members of a significant opportunity.
Bill Mullen RHI
Sarnia, Ont.
Well Nick and everyone else you make lousy students, I guess I have been wasting my breath all these years. There are certain elements in OAHI-CAHPI who can say and do as they please about spreading falsities and the management has condoned it and assisted in disinformation. What is even more freightening they have protected these people from any form of discipline, nor do they seem willing to correct the problems. OAHI seems to have a very serious problem of its own and that is the fact that no one has seen the financial records nor minutes of BOD meetings. While they are busy throwing stones from their glass house and believing everything they read and are told it is apparent that things are not as good inside the glass house as they would like everyone to believe. When things aren’t going well and you want to divert attention to the problems, short comings and protect people you come up with diversionary tactics. Yes you can fool some of the members all the time, but you won’t fool them all the time. Obviously there are plenty who like having the wool pulled over their eyes.
NACHI the proverbial whipping post for OAHI-CAHPI. Remember Nick a long time ago I told you OAHI-CAHPI sees Nachi coming up behind them in the rearview mirror and they can’t accelerate fast enough.?
(“In all fairness, I have noted very few if any, comments respecting bad mouthing them”)
I would expect you have not seen the CANUK comments because as you said you very seldom go the CANUK list.
AS per in the past you are again showing CAHPI favoritism every one knows who the two people you are talking about R&R.
I have asked you before why you just look at us .
I can take the heat but in all ,fairness you should also let others know it is a continuing two way street
You most certainly know that Bill Mullen and Dave Bottoms have done their fair share of adding many posts ridiculing NACHI on a continuing basis on the CANUK list .
You say why do I bring up old post’s
Incorrect information is was wrong then and is still wrong and should be corrected
Dave on a continuing basis has brought up about NICK and the very old Pennsylvania report .
Dave on a continuing basis also brings up the false information about the 12 year old who became a NACHI members it never happened but Dave loves to make millage with his many incorrect statements about NACHI.
On Bill’s Closed CAFE BB where we can not defend NACHI .
This NACHI BB seems to be the only place where all inspectors can get the true information on how the self appointed few are trying to take over the Canadian Home Inspection industry .