Yes that is just what it is and it is installed in the CH panel and posted on the Eaton web site so the whole world can see.
If this is part of the listed assembly or was evaluated in the assembly by a NRTL I doubt anyone could have a problem with it … except maybe inspect-ny
Panelboards that come preinstalled in panelboard cabinets are not investigated as an assembly. You could mount a panelboard in almost any kind of box you felt like, in much the same way you may mount other things in the leftover space inside a panelboard cabinet.
PowerLogic panelboards have lots of extra knick-nacks that you mount inside the panelboard cabinet. There is a manufacturer not making a motor-operated automatic transfer switch for Square D panels that has a “brain box” you mount inside the panel. The list goes on and on…
Marc
If this phase coupler or any other device was installed on the inside of a junction box such as a 4 square, how would you calculate the volume fill of that box?
Would the volume fill outlined in 314.16 still apply to this box that held a device such as this?
I know for such things such as receptacles and switches that a double volume would be counted but these devices mount to the box not inside the box. With the new rule in the 2008 code it is clear that these devices are mounted to the box instead of inside the box due to the new rule to add twice the volume for devices that have four mounting holes such as dryer and range receptacles.
What do you think about this?
My opinion, the code is mute on that matter, so only the conductors need considered in that box fill calc. As we know, things like dimmers and GFCI’s take up lots of room in a box too, but there’s no special code-required box fill considerations for those either. Code wise, seems like if that phase coupler physically fit, one would have to accept it.
I would just call it a device and it counts 2 same as a dimmer or GFCI
2. Install the coupler into a suitable workbox or equivalent enclosure using the two mounting holes.
Okay, so they didn’t use the mounting holes. I’ll give you that. This is all that a guy could rightfully have a problem with.
Mark:
Do you have to take out electrical permits in your area, and do you get your electrical inspections by the cities, or by 3rd party inspection agencies there?
Does PA require that electricians be licensed yet?
Do you always ask questions you already know the answer to, or just on special occasions?
I have to deal with more licensing authorities, more inspection agencies (governmental and otherwise), and more places to pull permits from than a man really ought to have to deal with. Sort of along the lines of what the orange guy from the windy city describes.
Marc:
Honest question, I am not being a wise guy!
When did PA start licensing electricians, do they have Master, Contractor, or Journeyman licenses, and what edition of the code is used?
I always though that they had no license rules.
Do you deal with 3rd party agencies?
Are they competitive and willing to look the other way on occasion?
Are you a member of IAEI or any other association? I have been a member of IAEI since 1969.
This doesn’t happen at the state level. They let all this happen at the local level, which is a bigger pain in the backside then I could ever explain.
Mostly. The AHJ can also be insurance people, architects, engineers, Army Corps of Engineers, etc., as well as local jurisdictional inspectors. It can be a pain.
People are people. Happens everywhere you go, without regard to who they answer to.
Congratulations! Did they give you a lapel pin or a watch or something for being a member so long? I’m a member of the NRA. I was a Lion’s Club member for a spell. I got a letter in the mail that said I may already be a winner of the Publisher’s Clearinghouse Sweepstakes, but I digress.
Marc, now I know you’re lying. I am the one who got the letter from Publishers Clearing House.
AGAIN NO!
I received a reply from UL and Schneider Electric today asking if this was allowed and here’s their reply:
QUESTION: Here’s the reference that makes the installation a violation!
312.8 Enclosures for Switches or Overcurrent Devices. Do you agree?
[size=2]ANSWER: Joe: Yes, plus 110.3(B) since the panelboards are not designed for extra equipment that have not been listed as an accessry for inclusion in the panel.
For more information about UL, its Marks, and its services for
EMC, quality registrations and product certifications for global
markets, please access our web sites at http://www.ul.com and
http://www.ulc.ca or contact your local sales representative. --[/size]
QUESTION: Do you allow this type of product in your cabinets with panelboards? I believe NEC Section 312.8 and 110.3(B) are being violated.
ANSWER: Joe after looking at the picture, the answer is no we do not.
Thanks for contacting us here at Schneider Electric. Your business is important to us.
Regards,
Schneider Electric
888-778-2733
Simple fact is, if they don’t permit it, they need to include that with the listing and labeling of the panelboard cabinet for it to be enforcable by any means. As of yet, they do not. I’m reasonably sure I can find someone on the other end of a telephone or email at any company to say about anything I want them to.
I am not surprised schneider says something they don’t sell can’t be installed in their panel. Those are the guys (SqD) who are driving the classified breaker debacle.
Gosh, is this argument still going on? I am going to give it five stars.
Again NO!
This is an example of the real reason for 312.8](http://www.geindustrial.com/publibrary/checkout/Application%20and%20Technical|DET-223A|generic)
312.8 Enclosures for Switches or Overcurrent Devices.
Enclosures for switches or overcurrent devices shall not be used as junction boxes, auxiliary gutters, or raceways for conductors feeding through or tapping off to other switches or overcurrent devices, unless adequate space for this purpose is provided. The conductors shall not fill the wiring space at any cross section to more than 40 percent of the cross-sectional area of the space, and the conductors, splices, and taps shall not fill the wiring space at any cross section to more than 75 percent of the cross-sectional area of that space.
I am not sure that I understand what you are saying here Joe.
Are you saying that 312.8 were written solely for GE panel enclosures?
Why you got all that space below your name again for?
No, this is applicable to any panelboard in a cabinet.
This is an example of the real reason for 312.8](http://www.geindustrial.com/publibrary/checkout/Application%20and%20Technical|DET-223A|generic)