R-22 Phase out?

[wjones (Will Jones, TN 822)]

I was wondering if any of you guys are writing up R-22 refrigerant. I was told by an HVAC technician that I know the other day that they are no longer allowed to top off a system that has a leak with R-22, and if they do and get caught they are fined. I was under the impression that the EPA was phasing it out until 2020, and that R-22 units could be serviced as long as someone still has the refrigerant.

[rcooke (Roy D. Cooke, Sr)]

Roy, doesn’t that relate to Europe and not here in States .

Thanks Jim will look for more info… Roy

[jmoore5 (Jeffrey Moore, AZ#49250)]

Roy, doesn’t that relate to Europe and not here in States

[badair (Barry Adair, EIFSTX#39)]

ASHRAE Technical FAQ

[kramm (Kenneth A. Ramm)]

https://www.google.com/search?q=R-22+phase+out+in+the+us&oq=R-22+phase+out+in+the+us&aqs=chrome…69i57.17710j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[eschmidt (Erik Schmidt)]

HIs will have to recommend installing alarm systems on outdoor AC equipment, as desperate people needing refrigerant will be stealing it if they can’t buy it.
Don’t laugh, it happened to a friend after R12 was phased out

[wjones (Will Jones, TN 822)]

Thanks Barry that matches the same info I have read everywhere else. You can still service the existing systems with stockpiled or reclaimed refrigerant. Why are all the techs saying they can’t service them if they have R-22? Are they getting different info from somewhere else? I have found nothing that states you can not service systems with R-22 but every Tech I talk to around here won’t touch them. I can’t figure out if they are confused, are trying to force new units onto people, or scared to death of me since I am also with RESNET ; OR if I am wrong.

[cbottger (Charley L. Bottger)]

@wjones

Thanks Barry that matches the same info I have read everywhere else. You can still service the existing systems with stockpiled or reclaimed refrigerant. Why are all the techs saying they can’t service them if they have R-22? Are they getting different info from somewhere else? I have found nothing that states you can not service systems with R-22 but every Tech I talk to around here won’t touch them. I can’t figure out if they are confused, are trying to force new units onto people, or scared to death of me since I am also with RESNET ; OR if I am wrong.

Its all a big contractor scam trying to sell more systems. We have in my area contractors charging $100.00 to $135.00 per LB of freon

[mcyr (Marcel Cyr, CMI)]

Charley, what is the norm now when there is a leak or a system needs a recharge after the proper repair?
Do they take the R-22 out and replace it with the 134A or just refill with the R22?

They also have a R-407C and a R-410A that operates at higher temperatures most likely used for Commercial, but 410A is said to be more like the R-22.

Can you shed some light on these different substitutes and the standard used in repairs?

Would help enlighten us on the subject.

[kramm (Kenneth A. Ramm)]

@mcyr

Charley, what is the norm now when there is a leak or a system needs a recharge after the proper repair?
Do they take the R-22 out and replace it with the 134A or just refill with the R22?

They also have a R-407C and a R-410A that operates at higher temperatures most likely used for Commercial, but 410A is said to be more like the R-22.

Can you shed some light on these different substitutes and the standard used in repairs?

Would help enlighten us on the subject.

I haven’t seen anything other than R-22 or the 410A for residential around here.

[mcyr (Marcel Cyr, CMI)]

@kramm

I haven’t seen anything other than R-22 or the 410A for residential around here.

So the other part of the question Ken, is do they reclaim the R-22 and/or just top it off with the 410A? I wouldn’t think they can mix it.
I would think think they would need to reclaim the R-22 and why not use the 134A at that point. What is the difference with the 410A.

Just trying to get a better perspective in the different types of HFC’s

[mlarson (Michael Larson, WI Lic. # 1672-106)]

R134a and R22 are very different refrigerants.

R134a is used in automobiles.

[mcyr (Marcel Cyr, CMI)]

@mlarson

R134a and R22 are very different refrigerants.

R134a is used in automobiles.

OK, thanks.
So, do they reclaim the R-22 Miike when repairs are done or just recharge it?

[mlarson (Michael Larson, WI Lic. # 1672-106)]

Ban on R22 (HCFC)
HCFCs have been used as refrigerant gases since the complete phase out of the older CFC refrigerants. The most commonly used HCFC refrigerant is known as R22 and has been in widespread use in applications in many economic sectors. However, all HCFCs are to be completely banned after 31 December 2014.

Therefore, from 1 January 2015, the use of all R22 in the maintenance or servicing of existing refrigeration, air conditioning and heat pump equipment will be prohibited. Any operator of equipment running on R22 should consider the impact of this ban and ask for advice from a qualified and certified refrigeration and air-conditioning contractor to ensure that any business-critical equipment is retrofitted with an alternative gas or replaced before that date. Operators of other equipment that is not considered business-critical may prefer to continue using the equipment; however, it is recommended that operators have plan in place in the event that the equipment breaks down, as it will be illegal to service or maintain the equipment if it involves the use of R22.

Note that although equipment containing R22 can continue to be used beyond 31 December 2014, there can be no maintenance or servicing carried out on the equipment that involves breaking into the refrigerant circuits.

It should be noted that recovered refrigerant gas is considered a hazardous waste and must be managed accordingly. From 1 January 2015, there will be no legitimate use for any recovered R22; therefore, it must be discarded and managed as a hazardous waste.

Air

This is all baloney by our government. Must save the planet you know. :roll:

[mcyr (Marcel Cyr, CMI)]

Wouldn’t surprise me it gets reused for the kind of money it is worth.

[mlarson (Michael Larson, WI Lic. # 1672-106)]

@mcyr

Wouldn’t surprise me it gets reused for the kind of money it is worth.

If I am reading things right you can no longer open the system. Period.

What a scam.

[kramm (Kenneth A. Ramm)]

@mcyr

So the other part of the question Ken, is do they reclaim the R-22 and/or just top it off with the 410A? I wouldn’t think they can mix it.
I would think think they would need to reclaim the R-22 and why not use the 134A at that point. What is the difference with the 410A.

Just trying to get a better perspective in the different types of HFC’s

Extensive system changes are required because R-22 and R-410A refrigerants are not interchangeable and cannot be mixed in the same HVAC system. These products have very different heat-transfer properties and use chemically incompatible lubricating oils. R-410A requires a polyester-based synthetic lubricant, while R-22 needs natural petroleum-based oil. What this means is that a system designed to use R-22 will fail quickly if filled with R-410A, and vice versa. For instance, R-410A builds up system pressure on the high-pressure side that is 50 percent greater than R-22, putting overwhelming strain on the compressor, lines and seals. If the R-410A lubricant encounters traces of the R-22 lubricant, it will break down and lose lubricating ability

Hope this helps

[wjones (Will Jones, TN 822)]

Charlie I’ve asked a bunch of guys that I work with on energy stuff and they are saying the same price for R-22; $100-130 per pound.

Marcel. On some systems you have to change the compressor, but you can flush the lines out in order to keep the indoor coil. Then of course change the compressor which is not an inexpensive fix by any means. I have not read anything about a substitute that works in the place of R-22 for a lot of systems. I’m sure there are some , but none of them are proven yet that I know of.